Tutoring - in Year 4??

[hatsybatsy]

A friend told me that she intends to get her son tutored from the beginning of year 4 for the 11+ exams. She's aiming for one of the major independent schools close to where we live. I just find this OTT- our kids go to a good school and seem to be doing well.

But I seem to be alone- rumour has it that most parents are getting their kids tutored by the end of year 4. I know I'm going to find it really hard not to follow the herd. Please reassure me - no need to tutor brright kids for TWO years before the exams???

Teacher - just everything you say, actually!

Whenever I find myself caught up in the "which school/tutor/NC levels" chat, I have to pull myself right back to basics. All I really aim for is to raise children who have a passion for learning, knowledge and understanding. And that they play to their strengths.

Crazy world we live in.

All very good points, teacher, although I doubt she really is all that disadvantaged, if you are a teacher. If that's the case, it's fair to assume she's had strong academic support at home from day one which is priceless compared to a few hours' tutoring paid for by parents who mightn't understand the system so well or have an academic background. Just saying. But otherwise I get what you're saying.

gah - I agree with everyone - it's crazy. He's a bright boy and there's no reason why he shouldn't do well at 11.

But - he does lack confidence and if all his peers are being tutored (I have reason to believe some started in year 3.....) then that won't help him. If he had a 3rd party tutor boosting his confidence (away from some of the alpha males in his class) each week, then he'd face the whole process more happily.

The 11+ exams here are September of Y6 for the grammars and Jan of Y5 for the independents - so Year 5 is the key year.....

Firstly, I do really rather agree with Teacher.

That said, I did have my dd1 tutored for a term - once a week - in maths, because she was bursting into tears over her homework, and lacked confidence. It was probably because of patchy teaching early on (illness, maternity leave etc), but whatever the reason she was anxious and the tutoring helped enormously.

At our state primary, there is no preparation at all for 11+. If dd wants to sit the 11+ (unsure yet), we will offer her some tutoring in the stuff she just won't ever have seen at school.

But, OP, if my child were at an indie that does prepare for 11+, I wouldn't tutor with a bargepole. IYSWIM.

Pink,

I agree with you. My DD - and all her friends - are hugely advantaged compared with many of the children in the vast area served by the superselective grammar. She is advantaged by being mc, by having educated parents, by having lots of books in the house, by having a teacher as a mum (though as the 11+ is VR only round here, 'normal' academic help is less what is tutored for than specific VR technique and endless drills of question types, so my being a teacher helps less than you would think).

To add to that already-exisiting advantage (which I can't decrease, and I admit is already unfair) by buying further advantage through tutoring - nah, can't do it.

Actually, those simply tutoring round here are still 'not doing enough'. Many of the places are taken up by children from the several private primaries who teach to the 11+ VR from day 1, and then point their pupils towards tutors for the last couple of years before the test....

DS is going into yr4 and will probably be tutored at some point in the year for the 11+

He is a 31st Aug child (happy birthday DS!) so I would like to give him any advantage I can, although tutoring does grate with me tbh as I think he is very bright (doesn't everyone of their own DC, not mine obviously!) but it seems the norm to tutor.

Reading all this makes me a little sad.

Education seems to be a tournament. A sort of knock out, winner takes all event. Everyone is fighting for a precious resource of which there isn't enough. Children who work hard and do extra work are seen as "cheaters" gaining an unfair advantage.

The problem here is that the state education system isn't offering enough of the rigorous education that so many students and parents want. Education should be endlessly elastic. It's a two way street and every kid willing to step up to the challenge should really be given a shot at it.

How did we get into such a mess, where families and children are lining up, desperate for the chance to work hard....and then it is denied them!

Whore,

I have, due to the prevalence of tutoring culture + private primary schooling round here, zero data to support your conjecture either way as I know no other child who is untutored.

I know that DD is not disadvantaged - for a specific, tightly timed, VR test in which exam technique and familiarity is a significant factor - compared with many children from less privileged background. As I say, I can't 'subtract from her life' all the advantages she has. Though, incidentally, I don't help with homework, past daily reading in the first couple of years of primary. All other homework is between my child and the school.

I would argue, given the type of test (she would be less disadvantaged in 'curriculum based' tests, I agree), that putting an untutored child, however bright, up against children FROM EXACTLY SIMILAR MC BACKGROUNDS, with all the same advantages, who have done weekly rehearsal of 'question types' and 'test technique' she is at something of a disadvantage.

Of course, I hope that you are right! That way I get to have my cake and eat it too -

I was a 'clever girl' I wasn't tutored because of my parents principles and also financial constraints. I went to a good state secondary and did very well. But probably not as well as I would have done at the grammar school I was so desperate to go to.

Fast forward to now and I'm making a similar decision for my ds, about to start y4.

He's a bright boy. The local schools are average but up and coming. The super selective grammar gets excellent results. The facilities are incomparable. But I'm not sure I can stomach the thought of tutoring. And I'm not sure I can fully articulate why either. It's not principles is it? I am quite happy for him to sit the 11 plus and attend the super selective grammar if he gets in.

So we are going to compromise. We will do verbal reasoning, non verbal reasoning and past papers with him for 2-3 hours a week. He will continue to learn the bassoon and clarinet, and continue with his rookie lifeguard training and his science and computing hobbies.

If it means he passes and gets a place, excellent, if not I will be happy that he has a supportive homelife in which his academic capabilities are encouraged and nurtured, something which will continue into his secondary school career, no matter where that might be.

Not sure why I shared all of that OP, it doesn't really help you, but it is something of a hot topic in our house too!

Ah, bloody minecraft!

Interesting reading whore, thanks for sharing. I wonder if we will end up with a tutor in that case? I guess I need to keep an open mind!

Whore - the tutor that DS will have is an old family friend and she has done some work with him before (when she was thinking of becoming a teacher) and he really likes her.

I agree that my DS also tries harder for his tutor than me! Also maths is not my strong point (it is DS's) so she does some maths with him as well to make it enjoyable.

He has not seen her for ages though, so hoping it will be the same when he sees her again.

DS also does loads of other stuff: football, hockey and has finally decided he wants swimming lessons after being almost phobic about swimming for 2 years.

"I'm sorry if I sound sniffy it's just that I'm a little annoyed by people implying that parents only have their child tutored because their child is struggling and not very bright and therefore shouldn't be aiming at grammar school anyway."

I understand that would be annoying - but it genuinely isn't what I am implying. My stand against the local tutoring industry is because it most damages those children who are exactly those grammar schools were set up for - the very bright from disadvantaged backgrounds - by further widening the gulf between the 'haves' [mc, educated parents, books in the house etc etc) and the 'have nots', and bringing money even more directly into the equation than it already was. It's a bigger and bigger 'arms race' between the very bright 'haves' which the very bright 'have nots' have no hope of engaging with.

(And round here, no-one would imply that you were tutoring because your child was not very bright - as I say I know of no child in DD's year, or in previous years, who has taken the 11+ without tutoring except DS. It is the norm, not the exception)

Gosh.

I read threads like this and confess to simply feeling 'perhaps its not worth even bothering to try'

dd is bright. But she hates working to time pressure, or learning by rote, and is the sort of bright that analyses a system, judges it, and then is stubborn enough to decide she doesn't approve of it and won't play ball. She's a maverick by nature, though less so for teachers/tutors than at home.

So if that kind of intensity of prep is what is needed to get into the more grounded of our local indies....it ain't going to happen.

exotic which is why the best selective independents go to a lot of trouble to set exams it is difficult if not impossible to prepare for, questions that test ability not attainment

That would be lovely if it worked. I just wish they could find the tutor proof test so that it was a level playing field.

I get the impression that's more the sort of intensity of preparation required to get into the local super selective state schools, Elibean...

Now, if everyone were 100% certain exactly what "ability" as opposed to "preparation" looked like, we'd be sorted, but I personally don't believe anyone has, yet. Besides which, aren't we talking about "all round ability" rather than sheer genius in just one area?

Yes, I think you're right Rabbit....still makes me , though may well not affect us directly.

Ah well. I shall trust my bright, maverick, little mule to make her own mind up when she's seen the schools, understood the system, and thought about it

I reckon my two little mules would give your dd a run for her money, Elibean!