Is there a problem with DD's attention? DORE test says yes. Feedback.

[glassofwine]

Hi, I posted on this thread earlier in the week about DD1 age 6, nearly 7 in Yr 2 and her daydreaming. I suspect I didn't put it quite right, but anyway this evening doing her homework with her was a total nightmare. She just doesn't seem to be able to concerntrate for more than a second, it playing with pencil, fiddling, messing about anything not to do h/w. This is not the first time, but it does depend on the h/w if it's numeracy she's fine.

Anyway I searched google for child concerntration and came up with an organisation called DORE, who claim to be able to help with a number of problems including ADHD, dyslexia (i was suspected for as a child) etc. On the website is a 'test' for ADHD which asked questions about concerntration etc. The results said that she had a high chance of having an attention defict problem, but not the hyperactivity bit. This makes sense to me as I have previously asked her teacher about it and she just said that she couldn't have it as she's not hyperactive (in fact quite the opposite).

I don't know what to do next. She's a bright girl and her reading is good for her age, but her handwriting, spelling and general literacy and v.bad she is daydreamy and will forget what you asked her to do just moments ago. She often doesn't appear to even hear what you say (ears ok). I'm wondering if there is a problem, but because she is relatively bright and well behaved it's going unnoticed at school. her teacher has talked about her airy fairyness and I got the impression she was a bit irritated by it, but then to be fair I find it annoying too.

Also, has anyone heard of these DORE people and their exercise system? What does it cost? Does it work?

Sorry for rant, all a bit confused and worried that there might be something I could be doing for her.

Just to keep you updated, have heard back from DORE today, they are sending me a DVD outlining what they do. There costs are £2,000 for the 12 month program. mmm, can't see DH agreeing to that.

Have looked into brain gym, sounds like a similar sort of thing, so am ordering a book, which has got to be cheaper! Will see what that brings up.

Very interesting to know what DORE costs - thanks for telling us, glassofwine.

I have some experience of brain gym as my children's school does it. It's a combination of \link{http://www.badscience.net/?p=225\pseudoscience} and synchronised fidgeting, but seems reasonably harmless (at least to my sons - the youngest didn't listen to the bit about holding sips of water in his mouth so they got to the brain faster, and the other two wouldn't have believed it anyway). Before you fork out any more money, do find out whether your children's school does it.

Turning to your prescription, I'd add encouraging your daughter to take more responsibility for herself, particularly over more complex tasks (e.g. sorting herself out in the swimming pool changing rooms, or making something that requires some planning and organisation). (I'd leave out the fish oils, but then I'm a sceptic as you may already have gathered...)

Wow GoW. Can't see DH forking out for that (or me - we need a new bathroom!) Where did you order the BrainGym book from? I've read the 'bad science' link, but can see the benefit of children having a break and doing some exercises to refresh themselves. Not sure about re-programming the brain.

Have been trying to allow DS1 to do more responsible practical things - I've realised I often don't let him even get a glass of water because of the mess, and he is nearly 8. But good idea about the planning, Hallgerda.

Let us know how you get on, GoW.

Hallgerda, I do try to give DD some responsibility for certain things and also little more free choice then I used to. I did a parenting course a little while ago, one of the things that came and rang bells with me was how some children have no control over their lives. I realised that I controlled everything from what they wore to who they saw, when I imagined how that would feel I could see why controlled children often have low self esteem. At the time DD1 was very negative about herself, so I introduced a few things to give her more control ie. pocket money and generally laying off her a bit. I have to say she has flourished and is no longer so negative, so I'm now a great believer in giving them some freedom.

Brain gym book ordered, they don't do it at school, am looking forward to finding out more.

As for fish oils - I'm a sucker for anything like that, a markting man's dream.

I honestly can't see how the dore programme can cost that to provide...parents do the input don't they? Just imagine what you could do with that amount of money!

There's amuch earlier book by the brain gym guy that's very helpful - will look out the title. I know I should be cynical about Dore but the jury's out for me - for £2000 I'm willing to give it a go. So far ds's handwriting has improved a lot. Maybe it's just that I've paid out so much, I'm determined to keep the exercises going. As a teacher and specialist dyslexia tutor I know I should know better.

Sweedishmum - I think I'd manage a way of finding the money if I could guarantee a result, it's just the unknown.

How easy are you finding it to do the exercises each day?

Don't go with DORE, it's very expensive. The activities that you get are not rocket science and you would be better off spending the money on extra curricular activites which will stretch your child in a variety of multi-sensory ways. If you are very concerned with motor skills and attention problems then you would do better to access your NHS Paediatric OT/PT who will fully assess your child and provide you with similar information and programme but for free! Get the school to ask the school doctor to refer you or go GP route.

They make money, that should always be at the forefront of your decision.

Hiya My son does have Aspergers and Dyspraxia.., he'd fall over anything, just 'zone out' in class a lot, had a very high reading age but even at 11 writes like a 6 year old. Was saying from the age of five that something was wrong but teachers just kept telling me he was fine. Diagnosed with Dyspraxia at 8 and Aspergers at 11. Basically I'd say look closely at information on the net.., the whole point about Autistic SYNDROME disorders is that your child can have one symptom, but not another.., its just a range of symptoms.., not having one doesn't mean u'r child does not have a condition. I must admit, I wish my son had been diagnosed earlier, i was so reluctant to put labels on him but his self esteem was so low and he was having such problems at school in spite of being incredibly bright i had to knuckle down in the end. I am looking into the Dore Programme.., there is also a site where u just pay £300 - £350 for a DVD giving the exercises but again it seems a bit 'Salesy' lol. Not sure where to go at the moment.., £2k seems an awful lot.

To add to the above. My son has been to occupational therapy.., but I'm afraid while it improved his motor skills to some degree, his ability to write is unchanged, his balance unchanged and his concentration unchanged. I think the exercises they gave him to do are simply not enough. Something like Dore is needed and it does seem to produce massive improvements but well, £2k is a very large amount of money I have no access to lol.

give your poor children a break!!! Your ds is 6. His behavior is normal for a bright 6 year old boy. I am so fed up with teachers making us feel like we/our children are inadequate because they don't have perfect handwriting/behavior/attention skills at the riipe old age of 6!!!!!!
My ds (just turned 7) is super smart, but I have been told at the beginning of every year since nursery that he is going to fail the year because he has "no fine motor skills" is "attention deficit" "stares into space" AND wait for it...."reads a library book while the teacher is lecturing AND then has the gall to actually have heard everything she is saying while not paying attention." He always ends up being one of the top in the class academically and scored extremely well on teh standardized tests last year. He is younger (by more than a year in some cases) than the rest of the class and some of this is just age related. And some of it is just because he is on his planet and doesn't generally come off it for a normal mundane lecture on short and long vowels. And funnily enough, I don't really expect him to grow out of it since my brother and dh and father are the same. My father is a famous scientist and is forever wandering off while you are in the middle of talking to him. He can't work the tv and video to save his life, but is finding the cure for cancer (and autism). And although generally my ds' handwriting is abysmal, it makes a miraculous recovery when he's writing a note to a pretty girl in the year above him!
All of this is to say...let your ds express himself at what he is good at and enjoys and encourage him in all aspects. There are loads of studies showing that encouragement is the best motivator for academic achievement. Teach your ds about normal societal expectations (not burping at the dinner table and putting the toilet seat down and saying hello when you meet someone and turning in neat clean homework). And let his personality do the rest. Save the £2000 for a trip to Disneyland/world in the usa and I guarantee the sunshine will cure all of you for the price of one.

As an experiment I have just completed the test for my 6 year old. He has never shown the slightest signs of being anything but completely NT. He is an good reader (free reader at the beginning of year 2). He is physically capable, articulate and confident. His spelling and writing are at or above what is expected for his age, and his teacher confidently expects him to get all 3s for his KS1 SATS. His behaviour is as good as you can expect an active 6 year old boy's to be (!)

I filled the form up completely accurately - I ticked mostly "nevers" with some "occasionallys" and 'some of the times' Here is his report

""From the answers you gave it would indicate that Patrick does have a SLIGHT PROBABILITY of having a dyslexic problem. This score should be taken in the context of Patrick's intelligence level. If he has a high IQ or intelligence level, then even slight or moderate scores could indicate a more severe dyslexia difficulty than shown in our test.

Your Results

The difficulties with concentration, behaviour and attention etc. that you describe are commonly associated with the medical diagnosis of Dyslexia.

This medical ?label? is one of a family of so called learning difficulties that affects 1 in 6 people in the UK. Other labels include ADHD and Dyspraxia.

Whether or not Patrick has ADHD is, in our view, irrelevant.
What is important is that the symptoms that you have described are at best frustrating and at worst are holding Patrick back from achieving their full potential.

The good news, whether Patrick has been ?labelled? or not, is that Patrick can do something about them. From what you have told us it seems that Patrick would almost certainly be suitable for the Dore Programme."
I think this speaks for itself - I wouldn't put ANY money these people's way. I think they are preying on parent's insecurity and desire to do the best for their children in a completely cynical and unpleasant way - and I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO RECIEVING THEIR PHONE CALL!

OK - I've just done it again, answering "never' to everything. I got exactly the same report - except that "slight probability" was changed to "low probability" The rest of the report was word for word the same - including suggesting that the programme would help him with his "difficulties"

Thanks for that experiment, seeker. I'm not in the least surprised. Do let us know how the phone call goes.

Bump - because I think this is important!

Bump again - becaue I am disappointed that no one seems to share my outrage!

It's just that it's so unsurprising - the fact you've caught them out just confirms all our lurking suspicions about these schemes. However, just because they try to enrol everyone doesn't necessarily mean there still aren't some people it could benefit, but as they're not going to give an honest answer as to who (if anyone) that might be then £2k a shot seems a very expensive experiment.

I am sceptical that Dore is a well oiled money making machine which exploits parents. IF you decide not to continue with the program after say 4 months there is no refund. This makes me think they do not have faith in their own product.

I have a dyxlexic child (with attention problems which are probably just part of dyslexia) and I think DORE is a money-grabbing exercise designed to fleece worried parents out of money which would be better spent on other things. There is no wonder cure for these problems sadly.
Children need parents and teachers with a lot of patience and encouragement and try and minimise any potential low self esteem problems caused by difficulties at school.

I think as cases like Kenny Logan's demonstrate where there is a problem a systematic approach with designated regular exercises and review can make a significant difference. However whether this needs to be Dore or could equally be OT or related therapies is a matter for debate.

A friend's ds has improved using Dore but the approach was similar to many of the ideas suggested by ds' OTs. His symptoms were unlikely to access specific NHS resources otherwise and for them the cost was not such an issue. For me the debate is more about whether for over 20% of the population who are similarly affected, there should not be more resources put into a public funded scheme to identify and tackle these disorders early on, reducing the cost of the problems which can occur later on as a result of them not being diagnosed and helped.

At my children's school they do a programme called "Fizzy" that seems very similar to the DORE thing. It appears to be very effective - and it's free to parents!

I have a DD who has dyspraxia. I wouldn't contemplate the DORE programme for her as I agree that it is preying on parent's worries and fears . There was an interesting article in the Times about a year ago looking at it. Madeleine Portwood ( think that is her surname) came out very well from it. I would get her book and spend some time trying the exercises in there with him.

Interesting thread because when I clicked on it I didn't realise that it was me who'd started it in 06 (have changed my name from Glassofwine). As you can see I was very worried about dd - who is now 8 and in year 4, if dh had agreed to it I would have spent £2k that we didn't really have.

However two years later dd is doing very well, no concentration problems at all, she has moved up in all ability groups and is now either average or top rather than in the bottom groups for everything. What's changed? - nothing really just time. It's made me realise that we almost know too much as parents these days, I was on the lookout for a problem. There wasn't a problem, she was just 6.

That's a good update scanner. Perhaps all to often we are looking for problems that just aren't really there.