Is there a problem with DD's attention? DORE test says yes. Feedback.

[glassofwine]

Hi, I posted on this thread earlier in the week about DD1 age 6, nearly 7 in Yr 2 and her daydreaming. I suspect I didn't put it quite right, but anyway this evening doing her homework with her was a total nightmare. She just doesn't seem to be able to concerntrate for more than a second, it playing with pencil, fiddling, messing about anything not to do h/w. This is not the first time, but it does depend on the h/w if it's numeracy she's fine.

Anyway I searched google for child concerntration and came up with an organisation called DORE, who claim to be able to help with a number of problems including ADHD, dyslexia (i was suspected for as a child) etc. On the website is a 'test' for ADHD which asked questions about concerntration etc. The results said that she had a high chance of having an attention defict problem, but not the hyperactivity bit. This makes sense to me as I have previously asked her teacher about it and she just said that she couldn't have it as she's not hyperactive (in fact quite the opposite).

I don't know what to do next. She's a bright girl and her reading is good for her age, but her handwriting, spelling and general literacy and v.bad she is daydreamy and will forget what you asked her to do just moments ago. She often doesn't appear to even hear what you say (ears ok). I'm wondering if there is a problem, but because she is relatively bright and well behaved it's going unnoticed at school. her teacher has talked about her airy fairyness and I got the impression she was a bit irritated by it, but then to be fair I find it annoying too.

Also, has anyone heard of these DORE people and their exercise system? What does it cost? Does it work?

Sorry for rant, all a bit confused and worried that there might be something I could be doing for her.

I have a daydreaming DS age 6 in Year 2, so I sympathise. From reading other posts on this site, and observing other six-year-olds (and remembering what I was like myself at that age) I suspect it may be a very common condition. How well does your daughter concentrate when she's doing something she wants, or has chosen to do? (My son's fine at building very detailed models in Lego so I'm not worried about him!) Maybe part of the problem is that the system now expects six-year-olds to do homework, which may be an unreasonable expectation.

I hadn't heard of DORE, but have just looked at the website. It states that the cerebellum is insufficiently developed below the age of 7 for the treatment to be effective. It doesn't mention money... funny that...

Ds has been doing the Dore programme for about 2 months now (for dyslexia). All my common sense as a parent, teacher and in-training dyslexia specialist tells me it's mad, but he is improving. His handwriting is much better and he's much less grumpy. I'm cynical, but reckon that if I'm prepared to lose the cash, where's the harm? The jury's still out but so far I'm hopeful...

Have tried to contact DORE this morning to find out more, but answerphone, so don't know any more yet with regard to cost. Anyone else have any experience of this or similar?

Glassofwine, I did the DORE tests for both ADHD and dyspraxia for DS1 and - surprise, surprise! - they both came back positive. They were on the phone shortly afterwards trying to sell me their programme.

They are expensive and DH would never agree - I think if he'd filled in the questionnaires he'd have got quite a different result.

Have some friends who have done it with their 9 year old, but abandoned it after a while as the 'exercises' were just another thing to nag her about - more homework, IYSWIM.

Singersgirl, I was thinking that too, I'm terrible for starting something off and not finishing it. Having said that I thought that if I'd paid a fortune for it maybe we'd keep it up. Bit like gym membership (haven't been for months oops)

Of course it would be great to find out what the exercises are and just do them - anyone know?

I think what cat64 says is spot on - I should think a huge element of the improvement is just the simple discipline of the exercises - the obvious parallel being doing your daily piano practice if you're going to get anywhere learning to play.

As a cheaper (but still hardly free!) piano-practice-for-literacy for my dreamy unfocussed ds (who you've heard about already) we do Kumon English, and I really do think that has helped.

I know my friend's daughter had 3 colour-coded sets of exercises which were rotated through the week with her doing 2 sets a day. So eg on Monday it would be red and blue, Tuesday red and green, Wed blue and green. Took about 15 mins a day.

One exercise was to do with throwing beanbags, one with balancing on one foot. Some had to do with the mysterious 'crossing the mid-line'.

The Dore-speak apparently is that children with these types of problems have retained infant reflexes. Their brains have not developed motorways to carry signals efficiently, so they rely on a roundabout series of A-roads. The exercises are supposed to help cut off the A-roads and develop the motorways (I'm paraphrasing what my friend told me).

Sorry don't know any more.
I'd like to know what the exercises are - they sound very like Brain Gym to me.

Was thinking about Kumon numeracy for my scatterbrain unfocused DS1 - he's got quite good mathematical understanding (eg decimal relationships etc), but calculates slowly, which in the early years is a real hindrance.

If you google DORE you will get some similar views. One particular point that comes up again and again is that what the exercises are is not publicised (argument appears to be that each programme is individually designed for each individual child and so it wouldn't be appropriate to list out the exercises generally ... hmm).

Anyone done the tests and got a negative result? (Just curious). Parents are put under unreasonable pressure to get their children to achieve - and it's assumed to be our fault if they don't. 29 out of 30 children just won't be top of the class. (OK, one can improve the odds through smaller class sizes in the private sector...) So there's a whole industry out there feeding off our insecurity. Maybe I shouldn't knock it - it might be what's keeping our economy going.

glassofwine, can you think of an enjoyable activity you and your daughter can do together instead of going to more classes and having more homework grief? Go to the swimming pool or the park together? Girly stuff? (Not something I do, but I understand lipstick's great for fine motor control). Back garden nature scrapbook (you look for wildlife or flowers together, take photos etc, she finds out about the "finds" and writes about something interesting she's just seen and feels motivated about - or just sticks the pictures in, it can be up to her (not one for arachnophobics though...).

I did think of seeing what would happen if DH did the test - he has a very different view of DS1's 'issues'. Think would need to do it from another e-mail/workstation thingy.

You could give Kumon a try, singersgirl. I think ds's simple attitude to picking up a pencil has improved because of it. It's got nothing of the "cult" about it (unlike DORE? not sure if that's fair, anyway) but it is fantastically dull - truly it is just the academic equivalent of piano scales over and over. Dd is doing the maths one and she's spent a month adding 3 to numbers up to 21. Weirdly though they both enjoy seeing themselves progress and get all excited when they're promoted a level. I guess the psychology is pretty obvious.

they have a very strong sales force

Kumon or Dore, ZTT? Probably both!

Bink, do your children find the Kumon fantastically dull despite enjoying making progress? Or do they willingly plough through their worksheets?

actually meant dore..I've seen their adverts for staff locally which are very sales orientated

dd (5.5, no concentration issues) willingly ploughs, and then hovers on breathless tiptoes to see if she's got 100%, which she usually does - the principle is that you should be getting just about everything right.

ds (7, space cadet) needed jollying along to start with (some bribery, sometimes) but I notice now (been doing it about three months) that he settles to it much more quickly and cheerfully - he knows that if he steams through he'll be done in 15-20 mins. I think that alone has been a benefit - the fact that he can now confidently look ahead to something Being Finished - I think he'd always had a specific difficulty with anticipating getting something done. You'll probably know what I mean.

By the way, though Kumon advertises we didn't feel we got anything of a hard sell, or a sell at all really.

Re the dull thing: funnily enough they don't seem to think Kumon inherently dull - they grumble if they'd rather be doing something else, but dd finds her simple sums quite satisfying, and ds's worksheets tend to be made up of bits of stories and he rather likes putting all the bits together and reading me the story he's figured out. It's me who thinks, oh god, we're supposed to be going out in half an hour and we haven't done the Kumon yet.

Well, have been suitably put off DORE, yet to get a phone call back from them, which will be interesting. I've just been to Woolies to buy a swingball and think I'll just try doing a bit more one to one with her.

I agree with earlier comments about parental guilt. DH doesn't think there's anything wrong with her, just a daydreamer like him, I can't help worrying that in a few years time we'll be told we should have done something earlier IYSWIM.

With all my kids I'm not into loads of after school clubs etc (they each do 1 per week) I think childhood should be about kicking around in the garden making up their own games and as such all three do come up with some great imaginary games together. However sometimes you just worry you're doing it all wrong.

I think I'll try to find more time for DD1, it's hard with three all so close in age, but hey they are worth it .

Having said that will keep you posted on what DORE say and am going to talk to her teacher this afternoon.

Thanks Bink! Will put Kumon back on my long list of things I might possibly try with DS1 - have ruled out ed psych for the moment, though another friend has (without prompting) suggested it.

GOW, I feel the same about DS1, and DH feels the same as your DH - I worry there's 'something' that could be sorted, he thinks he's fine and just like him. Hence the Dore questionnaire. Let us know how you get on.

There's a whole page of FREE exercises at www.dyslexics.org.uk

glassofwine, Prof. Diane McGuinness says, 'When children are highly distractible, overly disruptive and unable to stay 'on task', this usually means they can't do the task'

Hi bink - slight hijack here - I recall your concerns about ds' concentration issues, and am glad that Kumon seems to be helping him.

Would your dd be doing Kumon if your ds wasn't? Awkwardly worded, but I've wondered if my dd would benefit from extra maths attention. She is very verbal and is oriented that way. I'm hopeless at Maths so have wondered if my dd would benefit from a bit of extra focus in that area early on, in an attempt to counteract any genetic deficiencies with maths .....

Have spoken to her teacher now who agree's that she sometimes zones out etc, but is not overly worried. She seems to think that she's had a bad start and is still playing catch up (we've only moved to this school in Sept previous one wasn't good), she says DD has made great progress and if she haddn't got off on a bad foot would be amongst the brighter ones. They also have some ideas on work they can do with her to help concentration. So I'm not anything like as worried as I was, but still think that I need to help her more.

So my prescription for myself is: more one to one time, more sporty/hand eye stuff. more simple instructions. more fish oil - anything I've forgotten?

Hi EB! - well, no, because she's basically getting on fine at school dd probably wouldn't be doing Kumon maths if it weren't for her insisting on being allowed to do whatever whatever ds does. But it's still been really good for her - you can see how much more confident she is, how much more she thinks of sums as "her thing" (as opposed to its only being ds's) and I think otherwise there would have been a time in due course when her (exhaustingly able) verbal skills would have very obviously outstripped her maths.