August boys

[frecklface]

Hello all
My DS2's birthday is 31st August. Our LEA allows very late August birthdays some flexibility in which year they start at the headmistress/master of the particular school's discretion. I would prefer my DS to start reception a few days after his 5th rather than his 4th birthday, (they then accept that the children stay in the "wrong" year throughout their school career including secondary school). I am aware of 2 other August children locally who are in the "wrong" class but both attend schools other than our first choice school (Welsh medium - bilingual family, both are at English medium schools one state and one private) so the precedent is well set but I need to put forward our case to our head. I am aware of various educational research suggesting that boys overall may benefit from a later start to formal schooling and that summer born boys fare less well overall but have no references - can anyone point me in the direction of any specific research material/quotes and/or provide refs or links to help me to prepare a well argued case? I am also believe that this is considered routine in Scotland - does anyone have links or information about why this is so and the reasoning behind it? My main concern is him getting switched off from school at an early age not because he is not able but because he is developmentally not ready. I am aware that schools deal with this every year and that allowances are made (including the age considerations made in SAT results but this obviously does not extend to GCSE/AS and A levels) but I would prefer him to be ready and able to stand his own rather than playing catch up from the start or needing such allowances. Our school has an excellent extension prgramme which if he proves to be academically able he will be able to take advantage of when he is ready. Ultimately if our head will not agree we would seriously consider either HE to about 8 or possibly one of the other two schools (but both are English medium).
Many thanks
FF

I can paste links to a recent article in the Scottish Herald that basically says that if boys start school at four, they never catch up (or words to that effect...) You need to pay to read the archive, but I'll try and paste a link to the summary and you can take it from there. I may be a while...

I can paste links to a recent article in the Scottish Herald that basically says that if boys start school at four, they never catch up (or words to that effect...) You need to pay to read the archive, but I'll try and paste a link to the summary and you can take it from there. I may be a while...

\link{http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/smgpubs/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=boys+start+school&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&fromday=01&frommonth=01&fromyear=2006&today=08&tomonth=06&toyear=2006&By=&Title=&publications=1&x=44&y=11\try this}

Thanks MrsMuddle that would be great.
FF

Aah cross-posting - thanks for the links will follow them up.
FF

is it really up to the head to agree (well it is to the 'keeping back a year bit' next year), they aren't legally obliged to attend school until the term after their 5th birthday are they? So he won't actually be 'of school age' even though he is entitled to a place.

Hello frecklface,
I went through this with my dd. As a pre-schooler she was a fidgety whirlwind, slightly immature and always socialised with younger kids but otherwise she had no noticeable developmental delays at that stage. She was also born early and would otherwise have been in the younger year. All of these if they apply are worth mentioning as they will add to your case - although if your chosen head is against the idea you are unlikely to change their mind.
For my dd being in the 'wrong' year has been absolutely the right thing for her, although it can cause some issues that it is worth being aware of.. In some sport (e.g. athletics) being the wrong side of the boundary can mean they are ineligible for competitions. My view is that in the right year being the youngest they would have been unlikely to be good enough to make the team in any case, so no great loss - unless you have a very sporty child, but it can be upsetting to them to be left off a team. Some parents have made rather snide comments, although interestingly these have all been from parents of 'old-in the year' children - parents of 'young in the year' children have been supportive.
There is a view that for a bright child it is easier to score more highly in standardised tests if you are young rather than old (probably only an issue if you are in an area with selective secondary schooling). I'm not sure it's true in any case. What is true is that a bright child will not be as stretched if they are oldest.
Take the boy thing with a pinch of salt. Some (maybe most) children, regardless of sex, will be fine as the youngest and others won't. You have to make the judgement as to which category your child is in.
If you look for studies to back you up you will find them. You will also find studies that show the opposite (you can prove just about anything with statistics). You really do need to consider your child and how well they can focus, whether they are showing signs of being either very sporty or very bright - and remember that initially the demands on them are low and ramp up more after reception.

Thanks
Catherine you are right he does not need to start school until the term after he is 5 but this would conventionally means he starts straight into year 1 which I think would be very hard.
Snorkle - did you have mush trouble getting your DD into the "wrong" year? You raise an interesting point which I hadn't considered re sports teams so thank you. Have the parents concerned made snide comments to you or to your DD through their children? I feel sure that he will be beter off overall in the year below and am glad to hear that it has worked out well for your DD. It's too soon to say whether he is going to be bright/sporty but genetically he is likely to be academically able, not a high acheiver in sports although we are an active family so will probably enjoy them and a late physical/emotional developer - this is certainly the pattern DS1 is showing.
FF

frecklface - Our LEA was much more rigid than yours and the local state schools would not/could not budge. It was the major factor in our choosing private education. The private school is quite flexible both ways so there are a few other kids in the same position. It has been the parents not the children that have made the comments and nearly all to do with sport (something about competitive sport does bring out the worst in parents I think). I would have probably made the same assessment as you about dd's likely abilities at that age but it later transpired she has some specific learning difficulties which is probably why she seemed so unready for school at 4.

I honestly cant remember where I read about all this but we (in Scotland) made the decision to keep our children (with Feb birthdays - in Scotland the admissions year is Jan-Dec) at home until they were 5 and a half. It has been a real revelation - my daighter (just finishing P1) has done 2 years maths in 1 and has also become bilingual in English/Gaelic in one year rather than the 2 they expect.
From a teachery pov, I am a secondary Geography teacher and there is a huge differencebetween boys coming in the secondary at 11 and 12. That year gives them the chance to mature, be able to cope for themselves, to remmeber their books (I am serious - 11 year olds deffo forget their folder more often than 12 yos).

There is also a lot of stuff (I will try to track iot down but cant promise) about boys having poorer concentration and fine motor skills than girls at school entry.
Our son will be 5 in Feb 2007 and wont start school till Aug 2007. I am still trying to see if I can swing it for dd2 (5 in Nov 2008 - dont want her to start until Aug 2009).
All the best - I do hope you manage to swing it for your ds. The Europeans mainly dont start formal schooling till they are 6 and perform much better thatn we do at school leaving, they must kow something we dont.

Thanks Snorkle - we are hoping to avoid private education as there are no local Welsh medium private schools but would certainly consider it if necessary but I assume we may be too late off the mark in terms of waiting lists and so on by now in any case. Thanks for your comments Harrisey, the relative immaturity both emotionally and physically at secondary age is one of my concerns. I have followed your links Mrs Muddle which were very interesting - thanks.
FF

frecklface, I don't know if you are concerned about this because your son will be the youngest in his class or because you feel he personally would not be ready regardless of when his birthday fell - I myself wouldn't try to keep my son back a year simply because of when his birthday fell - if your ds is bright and able to cope academically with the work (and it will be a lot of learning through play in Reception) there is no reason to assume he won't do well at school. My ds is a July baby, quite bright but I felt he was lacking maturity (still having lots of tantrums coming up for 4, etc). However I did send him to school at 4 and it has been the right decision - his behaviour has improved so much and he is doing very well from an academic pov.

A very experienced Reception teacher once said to me that she didn't feel summer babies were disadvantaged - they might be less mature than the older children in the class but academic progress was mainly down to the child's own level of ability.

BTW, I know a child with the same birthday as your ds, started school at 4 with learning difficulties (unable to talk for example) and finished Yr 6 at the same level as her peers.

I think how your son would fare starting at just 4 would be down to how good the school is and his own abilities - I wouldn't assume it won't work simply because he is an August-born boy - but this is just my view and I'm sure lots of others will disagree!

Would also like to add that I think it is a shame that in this country parents don't have the flexibility to start their kids a year later - in Ireland it is common for summer born babies to hold off starting until they are 5, but they can go at 4 also if the parents think they are ready - much more flexible

I haven't posted either since I have no data to support frecklface's original questions, but I also have 2 August born boys who have thrived in their year group at school, both socially and academically. Reception is so play-based that it is really not much of a change from nursery.

But you know your son, and if there are particular social immaturity issues you are worried about, of course you must take them into account.

Where we live it is extremely difficult to get a child with no identified special needs held back a year - the only child in DS2's Reception class who is out of year group is an August born boy from the year before with a speech and learning delay.

Hi. My son was born at the end of July, but I think he qualifies for the August Cklique as he is a late develope- in fact, it's only in the last few weeks he has stopped looking and acting like an eighteen month old. He's now fitting into two year old clothes and has started to talk, but with him starting Nurseery Class in September- well, the difference between ds1 and ds2, who were december / january babies in scary!

We don't have the option of starting him late unfortunately, as it's a selective school with a very high application rate. Worries me a lot, as I just know there's no way he'll be potty trained, talking coherently or behaving in a structured way. The morning class aprticipate in assemblies and things with the school, so I am glad he's in the PM clas as there would be no chance of him co-operating at all.

I did fortunately have a chance to mention to the Head yesterday (in a meeting about DS1) that he is awaiting hearing screening, so I hope they can take that into account- but we'll have to wait and see.

frecklface, if your LEA will let your son start at 5 and stay in the "wrong" year I would do that (unless it means he will lose all his friends and be sad without them in September - haven't read posts in detail).

My DS1's birthday is July 13 and he was the youngest in his year right through primary school. He was grown-up enough, and academically OK, but the way the classes were structured meant that he was generally in a class with children from the year below while his friends, who all had autumn/winter birthdays, tended to be with the year above; they used to leave him out of things and wind him up and he used to get very frustrated and behave badly.

In fact there were some lovely kids in the year below but they weren't His Friends; I think if we had had the option of waiting a year and going in with them it would have been better for him.

As far as academic achievement is concerned he went to the grammar school here and got adequate GCSEs and AS levels (a girl with the same birthday, but a much better attitude, has flown through with all A*s!)

My son has just started reception in England. His birthday is the 16th August and he is struggling. I know it is early days but because our village school is small, all the other boys are Autumn birthdays. All his close friends are still at playgroup yet they are less than 2 months younger. Having seen the confidence knocked out of my daughter, who is born in July, by always feeling "stupid" in comparison to a significanlty older group of children, I feel extremely worried for my son. He hasn't any learning difficulties that we are aware of, but I would be interested if anyone has manged to delay there childs year of entry in England and put them in the "wrong" year.