Is this the usual attitude to recipients of scholarships/bursaries?

[ariane5]

Dd has a v generous bursary for secondary school. Twice in the last fortnight I have been asked which school she will be going to.

The first person looked surprised when I said name of school, repeated it twice to me and then said "oh, does she have a scholarship" to which I said yes and she said "I see" and the second person quizzed me over every aspect of it.

Clearly it is obvious we have no money, I myself wouldn't question anybody even if I thought they couldn't afford fees for a particular school but I have been surprised how quick others have been to ask me.

Maybe I am overthinking things. I just worry a bit that if its that obvious we are getting help will it set dd apart and the other children at the school will know too? Tbh as soon as dd makes friends and they come back to our teeny council house they will probably guess.

I am just surprised at how judgy the people I've spoken to seem.I'm still surprised people think its ok to question how I'm affording to send dd there and assuming its with financial assistance.

showersinger Your post was very interesting but I was rather astonished at this:

Unless we are talking about a school in the country!

As you are apparently currently involved in this process you may like to know that it is entirely possible to find highly sought after, competitive schools OUTSIDE LONDON! (Some of them even out-perform London schools.....)

OMG sorry I deserve the comment! I was typing faster than my brain can think! Absolutely, somethingyesterday! I did not want to say "in the country". I meant a non competitive school in an less populated area thus less oversubscribed etc...?

shower Huh! Insufficient grovelling. I'm sure SCHOOLS like that EXIST... But the OP's DD's new school sounds like the sort you would recognise.....

Don't know why cap on "schools"...

Nosey and jealous so and sos
I had a free place to very expensive secondary... Be pleased and proud and put the worries right out of your head
Well done to dd btw

shower- that' s what I told DD. She "earned" a 4 figure sum in 20mn- well worth doing! She was pretty chuffed.

My children are towards the older end of the age range (uni age broadly) so I might have that wrong, about the merit factor with contemporary bursaries. But a few years ago they were each offered a bursary of 45%/ 50% on an average parental income for allegedly competitive schools, so it seemed like a mere application triggered a large bursary. Perhaps the current economic climate has shifted the goalposts. We never accepted any bursary, so I was never subject to any intrusive questions. Had I been, I think I would have tried to judge the questioner and if it was malevolent I would have told it to buzz off whereas if it was a seeker of helpful info I like to think I would have tried to point it in the right direction.

There's loads of jealousy on this one. I'm jealous of anyone who gets a bursary for their child. We wouldn't get a bursary but still couldn't afford private schooling, even if we made loads of sacrifices. I went through a stage of wanting to cry every day about the fact that my dd would have to go to a fairly crap comprehensive because we simply had no other option as far as her schooling went.

It's hard that some children get a worse deal educationally than other children through no fault of their own. Particularly as the children that get given money from bursaries tend to be the ones who would still succeed in the state sector, and the ones who would really benefit from the individual attention and extra support available in private schools, ie the less bright and motivated children, get fuck all from anyone.

So cut people some slack maybe?

Ha! I have the opposite problem to the OP. We live in a fairly affluent area of the country, where there's lots of private schools, and lots of good state schools. We chose our village primary, and local secondary, and most of our children's friends go there too.

But one of the social circles I am in once a week or so is full of private school mums, who do go on endlessly about driving in and out to school for events etc. I roll my eyes and laugh that I don't have that problem. To which there is always someone who is shocked that my children go to a state school! I obviously give off some kind of aura And I do get quizzed quite a lot about "surely you can afford private". I usually laugh and say "oh sure, but I can't be arsed to drive them to school every day when the state one is close enough to walk". But IT REALLY IS NONE OF THEIR FLIPPIN BUSINESS!

Can I just add that we would struggle to pay private fees. It would certainly mean no family hols, no school trips and no fun extras as a family. And could prob only manage it for one child. Thankfully we don't have to worry because we struck it lucky in the postcode lottery (moved here prior to having children)

and the ones who would really benefit from the individual attention and extra support available in private schools, ie the less bright and motivated children, get fuck all from anyone.

The thing is Mini, although independent schools are nominally charities they do have to operate as businesses. The richest schools can only maintain their position by remaining the most sought after. As this is generally judged by how successful the children are at reaching the desired next stage of their education it is imperative for the school to select those who are most likely do do extremely well. The schools who are best at this can command the highest fees - and thus they will have the most to spend on offering bursaries.

There are hundreds of less selective schools where thousands of less bright children thrive - but those schools simply can't afford to offer the same level of funding.

It is obviously frustrating.....

I can understand your frustration mini. It must be extremely frustrating to be in the grey area of not being poor enough to qualify for a bursary yet unable to afford private school fees.

One of the main reasons we went for private for dd was due to medical reasons meaning the local state secondaries, although good schools were completely unsuitable for her due to her problems and we looked for a school that could meet her needs. I know how lucky we are that we qualified for a large bursary but also most of it was down to dds tremendous hard work.

I am all for cutting people some slack but I wish they could just be honest like you and say how they feel rather than questioning me and then being decidedly off when they don't like my answers/dont get all the answers they want.

I fully agree with you OP that people have no right to expect you to answer questions about your financial status. But can I please ask you to be careful when you say that your DD achieved her bursary "down to DD's tremendous hard work". As others have pointed out, there are some children whose parent or parents earn just above the threshold for bursaries but could never afford private school, whatever sacrifices they made. And do, even if their DC works tremendously hard or achieves te highest scores, they will never qualify. I think you have every right to not answer people's questions if you feel they are intrusive but I do think you need to realise that some people may genuinely be asking for suggestions and pointers to help their own application process...which feels ok to me.

Why be careful? Dd DID work tremendously hard and that's the truth. Despite her medical problems she put in hours and hours of work.

I have no problem whatsoever with people asking me how the bursary process worked, but all I have been subjected to was intense questioning from somebody I had thought I got along with quite well who is now being decidedly 'off' with me.
Joking about "giving up one of the cars and going without holidays" to afford school fees-she would rather keep those luxuries and apply for a bursary and was making that very clear. If I had the choice to give up something and pay dd school fees myself or get a bursary I would make sacrifices and pay myself but we are not lucky enough to have that choice.

And for the record, as proud as I am of dd and my other 3 dcs. I would swap in a heartbeat to be like the person who questioned me, with dcs who are completely healthy and could thrive and be well at any school. We looked into private mainly for health reasons but if somebody said to me now they could wave a magic wand and change things, make dcs completely well but that we would never qualify for bursaries and they'd have to go to a rubbish school somewhere I'd take it just to have them well.

Hmmm ...... Alien I can see your POV but - the reason I'm still buzzing around this thread (and feeling embarrassingly protective of the OP) is that, in far too many areas of my life, I know what it is to endure almost unendurably impertinent questioning from people who are uneasy about my inexplicable existence in what they had imagined was a sufficiently fortressed arena.

People are rude. And relentless.

It's one thing if the OP's closest friends ask her how things work - it's quite another if (and this is the impression I have of the situation) people who have rarely, if ever, spoken to her in the past suddenly show far too much interest in her business.

The person involved had, up until now been quite friendly but it has all changed since dd got a place at the school.
Her attitude towards me is quite hostile and abrupt and I'm really quite hurt, I feel like I was good enough to be her friend when everything she had was better than me-huge beautiful house v my pokey council house, endless chats about her holidays at pick up time, etc etc etc and suddenly now its all changed.

A couple of mums asked me today about dd going to the school (they were lovely though about it so no problems there) but I havnt told anybody else so can only assume that they have been told by the person who questioned me. I feel uneasy that dd is such a hot topic of conversation. It is taking the happiness out of it all slightly for me.

From what I saw at the induction day all the other girls and parents were lovely.
Nobody there asked any questions, dd got on well with them and said how nice everybody was.

It just seems to be an issue at the current school oddly.

"I would not ask how somebody else has afforded their new car/house/holiday so I don't see why our finances are anybody elses business."

Hmm... if they suddenly moved from a two-bedroom terraced house to an eight bedroom mansion with a huge garden and a pool you wouldn't even say "gosh, what a lovely house, did you win the lottery?!"

Anyway don't assume it's all down to the particular way you happen to be paying the fees. Anyone who chooses a private school has to accept the fact that they are implicitly saying the alternative isn't good enough for their child. If you've been keeping quiet till now about your plans then people may feel a bit like they've been made a fool of - as if you've just been pretending you've got the same choices as they have, discussing the nearest state options with friends, and all the time you were thinking secretly to yourself "yuk no way, not for my child, I'm looking elsewhere".

I'm not saying you were wrong to keep it all private (assuming you did, given that these friends have only just found out). Prob v. sensible, but an unfortunate side effect can be that people feel a bit fooled and snubbed, especially if they may have shared their own thoughts about schools and not had entirely honest answers from you because all along you were planning something quite different.

So maybe just consider whether some of the reactions are more to that than to the bursary itself.

I would tell any future questioners exactly what you have just said; if they raise an eyebrow over your choice of school, say that it's the school that will meet your DD's medical needs better than any other local school. Any self respecting, non intrusive person (if they don't know anything about your DD and her medical problems) will be polite enough not to say anything else. If the questioner still goes on, tell then non of your damn business and walk away, after all, you will most likely not be crossing paths with these people at the school gate for much longer!

Well done to your DD for her academic achievements, and I hope that the school is everything you and she need for a successful future

waitywaity; that might be how you view it, but not me, or anyone I know (unless they are privately seething with jealousy and resentment). Out of 60 Y6 pupils at my DS's outstanding state primary, one child is going on to the selective private grammar school. There is not one fellow pupil, or parent who is feeling that way; the overwhelming response is how clever she must be to have passed the entrance exam and wishing her well, and more than a little concern about her not knowing anyone else at the school. She is one of the most lovely children I have ever met though; so difficult not to wish her every success.

Also, if this child hadn't got the place at the selective grammar, she would have gone to the outstanding state secondary; no question of the alternative not being good enough as her parents applied to the local comp using the common preference form like everyone else did. Everyone knows this was a back up in case she didn't pass the entrance exams, but still there is no feeling towards this girl and her family other than pleasure that she passed the exams, and pride that a local girl is going to the posh school

Who said anything about not wishing a child success?! And the grammar school example is not relevant to what I was talking about, which was private schools, and more specifically someone keeping a plan to go private secret till the last minute, from people they might otherwise be having conversations about schools with. It's nothing to do with a child being the one child to go somewhere else.

Plenty of my dcs peers have gone private or to grammars, and it's no big deal at all - no seething resentment here! However those of their parents who are my friends have always been able to be quite open about trying for exams and interviews at other schools.

If they had been secretly trying for a private school while on the surface pretending to be happy with the state options, I would have been irritated by that when I found out, and that's what I'm suggesting the OP considers may also be behind her friend's manner, not just the fact that she's got a bursary.

waity I understand what you are saying.

We are thinking of not sending my DS2 to the local comp but to a private school in the next town and I find myself unable to talk about it to other parents- it is a reflection on what's on offer locally (limited subject choice) and I don't know how to articulate that without sounding precious. I also feel guilty because I can pay.

I get a discount for dd's school fees, but she had to pass the entrance process. I got one comment about how she must have got in just because I work there. Then their kids stopped asking dd on play dates.

I can only assume that they are jealous. I also suspect that the person who did that had tried to get their dd into the school but was turned down.

I have also had a lot of people ask me exactly what the reduction is for teachers.

As you say, it is nothing to do with anyone else and I never give them a straight answer.

I do find that I fall back on how convenient it is to have dd in the same school as me, but the truth is that we were wondering about private anyway as dd is ADHD/asd, bright and funding round here has been cut massively so she would be in a big class with no support.

My real friends just say that they hear it's a fantastic school, is dd happy, and all the normal responses.