UK Teachers are amongst the best paid and have the fewest hours in the classroom

[Arisbottle]

The story is not quite as simple as the headline would suggest but food for thought.

article from Daily Mail

I was a teacher and am one of the 'oldies' who left the profession.

Reasons? Too much red tape- I taught before the NC was introduced and didn't like being told what to teach. (English was my subject.) I also disliked the dumbing down of the subject compared to how it was when I entered the profession in the 70s.

Hours of work- my teaching career was split between state and independent schools. I can quite honestly say that teaching in the private sector was MUCH more demanding- had to teach lots of activities after a day's teaching. (I taught in a boarding school.) You really had to give your life to the school, compared to a state school.

IME the hours of work depend a lot on your subject- the English literature syllabus can change annually- choice of texts for exams at GCSE and A level- and this involves a huge amount of prep if you are not familiar with the texts. Similarly marking an A level essay is more time consuming than marking some maths answers.

Pay? It's a lot better than it was. If an experienced teacher can earn almost £40K that's not bad, taking into account the holidays- which are generous. The average UK salary is around £27K - just to compare. Anyone going into snr management in teaching can earn a lot more.

My DH is not a teacher and the graduates in his organisation ( huge multi national) earn around the same as teachers- and many of them have masters degrees- unless they climb the management ladder over time. They also have just 25 days holiday annually and most work- like DH- from 8.30 - 6.30 every day. He also loses time at weekends if he has to travel overseas or in the UK for Monday meetings- none of which is paid for - it's just 'the job'.

I suspect there aren't that many teacher who put in more than 2 hrs a day, every day, after lessons are over.

Oh- and another reason I left was because of low moral amongst teachers- the staff room was just a place for a good old moan and a discussion on how soon they could retire!

It always strikes me when teachers moan about pay and conditions that they have a choice- they can leave!

BTw mydoor I fully agree. Very few professionals work a standard 37 hr week-they work until their desks are cleared. In the city now, if you are a clock watcher you are not thought very highly of- and many people won't leave before their bosses as it gives a bad impression! 10-12 hr days are quite normal in commerce and industry.

sovery- that seems fair enough IMO!

Many teachers go to Advanced Teacher Status quite quickly- I thought that was possible once they had reached point 6 ( 6 years) on main scale?

see link
www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6000183

I don't think that £31K at age 27 is that bad- it's more than my DCs earn and they are both highly qualified science graduates with masters!

Andy they don't get 12 weeks hols!

Many teachers go to Advanced Teacher Status quite quickly

There are hardly any ASTs around, and there is a gruelling application process to become one. Many schools don't have any ASTs as they are very expensive and only teach a 50% timetable, spending a lot of time at other schools.

But that's the same in any profession- you don't earn more unless you take on more responsibility or show you can do an excellent job. Teachers have ( and will until 2015) an annual pay rise based purely on their ability to turn up each week! No other company would do this- in DH's company there are no annual pay increases this year due to the recession, and some companies have had to reduce salaries in order to retain staff.

I know quite a few young teachers/ new graduates and the ones who are ambitious feel that the salary range is pretty generous considering the perks- such as holidays, pension, pretty secure job prospects compared to other professions and private sector employment.

With the new higher tiers of pay now available ( which never were when I entered teaching) an ambitious and good teacher can earn a decent salary compared to other graduates.

Teachers' pay will never be sky high because

1. There is no shortage ( except in some subjects and this has been addressed partly now by extra pay) so current pay & conditions are sufficing.

1. Many teachers are women and it's a 2nd or p/t income ( sexist I know and not saying I agree but that is a FACT)

1. There is a generous pension scheme to offset lower pay.

1. Above point 6 on the scale is compares favourably IME with salaries for graduates and graduates with higher degrees in commerce and science.

noble- maybe your experience differs from mine? In my local tiny village primary school 2 of the 6 teachers were on the advanced pay scale and I know they are not unique. I know this because I used to do some supply work there.

The thing is- when I taught in the private sector, we were subject to the same conditions as any private company.

-Salaries negotiated with head/ governors.
-Incompetent teachers sacked pretty fast if they didn't perform ( 3 in one year were advised they 'might be happier in another profession'- they had appalling classroom management) I think the figure for state schools across the entire UK is something like 10 per year on average , just to compare.

• Redundancies if necessary

It's rather ironic that on MN and in general many parents aspire to have their kids privately educated, many teachers would like to work in the private sector, chief of Ofsted is calling for private schools to give state schools guidance on how to teach well, and yet the minute state schools are made to have the same working Ts and Cs, teachers start complaining!

No ASTs at my children's school. There are still professions where automatic pay rises happen each year - eg commercial airline pilot. If we aren't happy with the overall quality and attitude of a lot of the teachers we are currently getting, doesn't that indicate that it is a profession that is too easy to get into? Wouldn't we find a shortage of teachers if we were actually as fussy about who got into teaching as we are about who flies our aeroplanes?

If you wonder where all the older teachers are, we left to do easier jobs for more pay. On paper I do more hours and have less time off than when I was teaching. However, even though I now work 5 days a week rather than the 0.8 contract I was when in teaching, and I am always in early and leave late, my life is a breeze in comparison.

I get to have a cup of tea in the morning and the occasional lunch break. In the 12 years I was in teaching, I can count the number of lunch breaks I had on the fingers of one hand.

I do wonder why teachers stay in the job if they are not happy.
It's a vocation really. Sure, I'd be the first to say that doesn't pay the bills, but you've really got to love it to be happy in it- and that includes pay etc not just time at the chalk face.

Going back to pay, I really don't see why there are automatic annual increases- very few if any professions have that ( it's at the discretion of management) and even as an ex teacher I can't see how it's justified.

Wasateacher, are you confusing the upper pay scale for experienced teachers with AST status, which is a different job, not simply a different pay scale?

Because I can't imagine that a small primary could support two ASTs!

Being an airline pilot is a vocation. Being a doctor is a vocation. You've got to love it to be happy in it... The only real difference is that a bad teacher doesn't kill anyone, they just give you a lousy education. So we are all in on the conspiracy to provide a bad education to a lot of children, because we make less effort to keep out bad teachers, on the basis that to be too fussy would just create a shortage of teachers and then we'd have to pay them more to attract them back again...

I don't agree that being a pilot is a vocation.

IMO a vocation is something you do for love and is often something you have always wanted to do, and would do even if you were paid in smarties. Like being a vicar.
One definition of vocation is a 'calling'.

missbopeep - are you not aware of the number of people who fly because they love it, because it is something they always wanted to do???

What I think you mean is that you think something is only a vocation if your main motivation for doing it involves helping other living things, rather than just following an all-consuming passion.