Stupid house points

[blueberryupsidedown]

I used to tho think they were a good idea, not I'm not so sure. DS2 is in year 1, and has a speech disorder so he is very quiet in class, also very well behaved, he listens to instructions well and does everything he is asked to do, we have never been pulled on the side for a behaviour issue. He can he slow in doing some things but he also has dyspraxia so that's understandable.

He was really upset last week when one of the most badly behaved boys in his class, who fights a lot and needs lots of behaviour management (I have been on a couple of school trips - his behaviour is not good...) received a certificate for having achieved a certain number of house points and his efforts were praised during assembly.

DS was terribly upset by this, as he has not received a certificate, has received less house points, however he is consistantly well behaved.

He sees this as being 'not fair'. How do I explain it to him?

I know that it's useful for teachers to have house points as a behaviour management tool but how can they be fair to children who behave well all the time?

They are rarely fair in my experience, and the kids learn this quite quickly.

I just explained to mine, that the certificates were there really for children who don't understand the benefit of education, and they were too clever to need such gimmicks.

I'm with cream teas. Points/certificates are to modify the behaviour of kids who don't behave.

EAsy to explain at 9-10yrs, not at 5 or 6 when they get cross about the injustice of it all . Gets worse when X gets a point for a paragraph or writing and you don't for 2 sides .

I used my own " reward system" - an ice cream on the way home sometimes or a sticker pack.

In secondary it's much better as targets are individual and they can understand that. However prizes may be fair (ie clearly given to the highest marks) or unfair (like the infamous " lower school prizegiving " at Ds school where " every one was a winner" ) .

I also just said to my girls

that some kids find it hard to just "be" good let alone anything over and above, so there will always be encouragement for them in the form of house points and special stickers and certificates etc..

that EVERYONE has a baseline "goodness" and "effort" level and that if you go above and beyond your own level you are rewarded for it. EVERYONE has to work hard to get rewarded - whether their baseline is high or low to start with - just because you think they are not as good as you at something, does not mean the effort they put in is any the less etc...

that it will always seem unfair because different people are STARTING from different levels, my girls are lucky to have been born able and hardworking without any behavioural issues or special needs and from a background where those things are valued.

etc..

(those things being - being good and making effort)

MOD,

You are such a wise and strong woman. I wound myself up many-many times when "naughty" children have been awarded and others left out.
Especially when somebody with dyspraxia is left out.

In my daughter's class there is a very talented little boy with excellent behavior. He is Irish traveler, picked up by a school bus from a camp... He never gets any special award (like free Ticket to Legoland with school bus...). Obviously he will never get there.

You could tell him what dd1 said in year R. "To get the most stickers you need to be bad in the morning and then you get stickers for being not bad in the afternoon" She and some friends discussed whether this was worth trying out. They concluded not as they didn't want to be in trouble.

I've seen this from three sides. All my dc are different.
Dd1 is organised, academic, helpful, neat, always well behaved always hard working. She gets any award going, to the point of embarrassment at times.
Dd2 is academic, loves to be helpful but doesn't like to put herself forward for that, dramatic (as in "ooohh it hurts" type) and pretty much always well behaved but can be a bit of a chatter box and only puts in effort when she's enjoying it and is the child who I need to go in at the end of the year and point out she hasn't had the award that everyone gets a turn at for her to get anything.
Ds is very mathematical, but not a particularly good worker unless he likes it a lot, very wriggly, some behavioural issues and is quite capable of refusing to do the work set. He gets a good share of awards, varying from the not wriggling too badly through to excellent maths.

The problem is that dd1 likes awards. but she's not motivated by them. She's motivated by achieving what she wants and because she loves to be helpful. Ds isn't that bothered by awards. If he gets one he's pleased, but he reacts much better to something he can do (eg use the wordwork tools) than a certificate-and the sticker system in year R left him completely cold, in fact he used to refuse the sticker because he didn't want them.
Dd2 is now very demotivated. There are things that she is better than dd1 at, and saw dd1 get an award for-and now she doesn't. I also find that things dd1 got away with, dd2 doesn't. She's probably by far and away the most motivated by the possibility of an award, and the least likely to get it.

Why would you get praise and stickers for something you find easy?

I like that bad in the morning, good in the afternoon idea. It would work a treat.

Ds never even collects his points as he sees the whole system as corrupt. The naughty boy in his class (set fire to a bin/brought a knife to school/bully) gets the most points.

Soo frustrating. My DS1 had a medical condition which required regular appointments so could never get an attendance prize. Consistently worked well and tried hard - so didn't get to go on reward trip as this seemed to be used as an incentive for troublesome children. DS2 is the same (no medical issues though). Wanted to do a basketball club which we paid for - it was cancelled as not enough interest. Then the same local team came in to do a club but it was by invitation only for the 'children who needed help with team work'. He therefore wasn't allowed to attend. Our school system seems to be determined to reward mediocrity and it drives me mad. I can't afford private education so need to develop a thick skin and turn myself into pushy mum just to get my children what they need to reach their potential .

At my DD's primary school the children had to colour in their own house points on a sort of huge bar graph thing on the wall, so when they received a house point they would colour in one more square on their 'bar'.

So many children used to colour in a few more squares at random times if they were lagging behind their peers.

Certificates were then given out solemnly in assembly on the basis of these bar graphs! What a farce.

I've been impressed on the whole by my son's school's approach to this. Reception to year 2, the focus is mostly on tangible and immediate rewards, and they have a "star of the week" system. They also introduced an "excellence book" in which specific great work gets recorded. House points and merit certificates come in from year 3, and the children also quickly learn that it gets harder to earn house points as they go up the school. The bronze/silver/gold certificates are earned by year 3 and year 4 before the older ones start notching up enough to get them.

Our house points system is there to prepare them for our awards system in later life in which many people get awards (such as knighthoods) for simply doing their jobs and, in many cases, for making no contribution to society at all. Also that if they run a business and work all the hours God sends, they will one day get a visit from a tax inspector who will go through accounts with a fine tooth comb to scrape off just a few pounds more tax, whereas a large company can get away with millions in unpaid tax simply because they can afford the top accountants.

It's not exactly a fair world and house points rubs this in very nicely!

I hate all these things too. Luckily they don't do star of the week but it does all seem unfair. I appreciate it can be a positive way of rewarding good behaviour in kids who struggle with theirs. But to the children who behave follow rules and yet don't get any, I can see how unfair it feels.

DS is one of those who was rough, horrid & couldn't behave. Housepoints were a lifesaver for his teachers. And he learnt to change faster after swimming than any child you ever met which was a bonus to me.

My other kids complain about HP being unfairly handed out. Meh.

They seem to get handed out equally (but not all the time) to every kind of child, at dds' school. Quiet ones, ones with behaviour issues, the lot.

Sometimes they use them to bring out the quiet ones, get them noticed and give them confidence - just walking to the front of assembly to shake hands with the Head, for instance, can help those with stage fright like my dd1 used to have.

Both my DDs are at schools which set out very clear criteria for getting house points, and they are achievable by everyone. For instance: Homework for DD2 is sent home on Friday, it is due in by Wednesday. If it's handed in before Wednesday = 1 house point. Within the homework itself, there are often different levels of task so children can choose a difficulty or effort level that suits them. Lowest level = 1 hp, it goes upwards from there.

DD1 gets ACE points - Achievement, Commitment, Effort. This means everyone has a shot at getting points - but there are no rewards for slightly better than bad behaviour.