Dumb foreigner questions about England's school system

[inkstainedwretch]

Hi, I'm new to Mumsnet and new to England - we just arrived from Canada literally a few days ago. I'm terribly confused by the educational system and have a few questions.

1. I understand reception year starts "during the school year he or she turns 5." But when does the school year start and end? Specifically, I have a child who will turn four in late August. Does that means she starts reception year this September or next September?

1. I understand there are grants for part time nursery school for children who are three or four, but how does one apply for one? Do you have to apply before the child turns three, or as soon as the child turns three, or would a four-year-old still be eligible to apply?

1. Are young children actually taught religion in state-funded schools that are tied to a church? We are atheists and would rather our child not be taught any specific religion, so does that restrict us to community schools?

Thanks so much for helping out a fresh-off-the-boat!

1. Your DC who is 4 in August would be due to start reception September 2013. You need to contact your LEA to find out which schools still have places.
2. Normally you apply for a pre-school/nursery place and they then apply for your funding.
3. All schools in the UK have to provide some form of religious education and an act of daily worship. What form and how religious is up to the individual school. You can opt your child out. From what I have seen on MN some community schools are actually more religious than church schools.

The school year runs Sept 1 to Aug 31 so she will be in this September's reception year. BUT some schools arrange it so that children who are young for the year can start in January, and I think you aren't actually legally required to have them in full-time education until the term they turn five (which would be after Easter next year for you).

Nursery funding is usually arranged through the nursery or pre-school, you don't claim it directly.

And yes, CofE, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish state schools are actively religious.

1. Welcome!

2)Your DD could be starting school in reception class (R) in September (my DD3 will be, and she's 27th August birthday, turning 4 this year also). Although she doesn't have to start until she's turned 5 next year in practise she will simply miss a year of school if she does that- she would go into year 1 and skip year R if you waited till next year. In most schools they begin reading and writing in R year so she would miss out on a valuable year. There is very little flexibiilty re holding your child back a year unless she has identifiable special needs (and even then you have to argue it out with the LEA (local education authority) or you can afford private school fees. You can of course keep her in nursery for another year if you find a good one that will keep her up to speed in the things she'd be doing at school.

3. You have missed the application "window" so beware any school that has places for September still- you might want to shop around and find out about the local schools before making your choice.

4. re free funding I think you have to apply through the nursery setting. That's we did.

5. Religious-type schools rarely have much in the way of religion shoved down anyone's throat. The curriculum that most follow includes teaching a balance about all world religions. They're not crazy like they can be in some countries. Most of the parents and children there will not be very religious. Religious schools tend to be valued for their better discipline and better academic results, and often are difficult to get into for that reason as people will lie in all sorts of ways to get their kids in are very motivated about sending their children. For this reason though they would often tend not to have places by this stage in the year.
   Having said all this, don't give up, as people do sometimes have to move in the summer, circumstances change etc so places do come up even in popular schools.

6. the new "academies" have more freedom in many ways (including slight leeway on admissions figures) so definitely worth approaching them directly if one is your school of choice.

Hope you settle in well! Keep asking if you need more advice. Your first port of call would be your LEA I think or the school itself if it's an academy (look at the board outside, it shoudl say if it's an academy). School term ends in about 3 weeks so you have time to make enquiries. Hope the jetlag's not too bad.

People have already covered most of this. I think you may struggle to find a fully atheist school though - as there is an official state religion in the UK, religion in school is seen as perfectly normal.

It doesn't seem to stop children from becoming atheists, though.

Thank you so much to all of you! Very helpful indeed.

One extra thing, my children go to a pretty commitedly "Christian" C of E school, but although there is a strong "Christian" ethos; there is also a very strong ethos of respect for other's beliefs (or lack of them). So the school also teaches other religions, including Native American creation myths. It also has/or had until recently a Muslim member of staff. Parents are: Christian (many varieties), Jewish, Hindu, JW, Muslim, Atheist and a lot of Agnostic/not really bothered. The school also would never disrespect a child's beliefs.

So do ask the real questions you have and be blunt, but do ask them in both "religious" and "community" schools, because you may get surprising answers in both.

I hope you find a good school for your child/children.

You are not a dumb foreigner.

Please don't deprecate yourself and other foreigners.

Welcome! I see others have answered most of your questions.

Most schools teach religion, which is generally Christian biased, although there is teaching about other religions it tends to be less..

You need to visit schools and ask the question. You will not be able to tell by the name of the school, the prospectus or the funding mechanism.

I didn't want a Christian emphasis in school. But when we visited schools, the head of the community school, with, on paper, no religious affiliations, went on about their links with church at great length. This school had stressed teachers reciting lists of targets at me, and chaotic classrooms.The head of the RC school was clear about the religious activities, but also made it clear that their main priority was happy, relaxed children and families. The children were calm and welcoming.

You can guess which school I sent my kids to, can't you.

Are young children actually taught religion in state-funded schools that are tied to a church?

Not only are they taught RE but every state school in the UK has to have an 'act of collective worship' and then there some stuff about it being 'broadly Christian in nature'

Sorry

You can withdraw your child but it seems to be creating more and more atheists.

Lonecat - schools in Scotland have to provide religious education (not instruction) and non-denominational schools here do not have to provide daily worship - can't speak for Catholic schools. I think those are just English things?

1. Yes your 4 yo is due to start during this coming academic year but you could wait either for a place at a school of your choice to come up and/or defer to January or Easter (but you still need to secure a place asap, don't wait until then to contact the LA). Some will do part-time hours as a gentle introduction for September starters.
2. The nursery/preschool/childminder submits the paperwork and you should receive a reduction in fees for up to 15 hours' a week if eligible , term time only (so max 39 weeks per year) but you will have missed out for his term as a deadline for submitting claims will have passed and there is only about a month left of the Summer term. If you deferred the school place but found a Early Years setting or private school to take her for Autumn term you may be able to claim then.
3. There is a statutory element of worship /assembly in the curriculum but the emphasis will depend on area and whether the school has a particular religious affiliation . Many are no longer tied to any church but some do still receive funding from say a local C of E or Catholic parish so vicar/priest may visit , carol service in local church, offer First Communion instruction etc

Roughtyping the post specifies English schools. So I was not commenting in Scotland's system.

It was because you mentioned 'UK schools'. Scotland is part of the UK.

The impacts of RE are very interesting. It seems to work quite well to create a nation of agnostics. :).

Rough typing... Yes . Also, Sometimes 'dumb foreigners' do say 'england' when they mean uk, and it might be useful for op to know that there are major differences in the Scottish system, like the cutoff birthdate is not 1st sept, it's 1st march.

Good luck - also, as a fellow Canadian, you are not even foreign since Canada is in the Commonwealth and we share a Queen!

Rough typing, I am a teacher in Scotland. We must have a certain number of collective worship (assemblies) per year. That's been the case in every school I have taught in and been a student in.

My pennyworth...

IME There is nothing taught in the reception year, that a moderately bright child could not pick up very quickly in year 1. They keep learning even if they are at home until their 5th birthday...

However, there is a good reason for you, OP, to get your child into a school now and that is that by having a place in year R, your child will get an automatic place in year 1 next year.

I would advise though that in some areas, school places are incredibly hard to come by in all but the worst schools. So, unless you have already signed a lease/ purchased a house, i would check out the schooling situation before committing to a specific area.

You do this formally by contacting the LEA, but what you really need to do is telephone the school offices and ask if they know if they might have spaces next year. 99% will tell you that they are full with a waiting list, but at least you will know.

Unfortunately, I think you are going to find yourself making some very big compromises whilst resolving this problem and your views on religion may turn out to be one of the easier things you choose to put aside.

Stargirl, so am I. There is nothing about 'daily worship' here. Assemblies with a bit for the minister every couple of weeks.

New to the UK and already applying for grants LOL