Specialist Colleges

[GeorginaA]

Can someone in the secondary sector explain something to me? There's large headlines in our local paper this week declaring that two secondary schools in our area have won specialist college status, but I don't really understand how it works.

The way the catchment areas work here you're pretty much stuffed if you want to go to one of the others, so what is the point of these specialisations? If a child was exceptionally good at languages he/she still wouldn't be able to go to the language college, they'd be stuck with the technology college that we're in the catchment area for.

Am I missing something obvious? Surely this just puts children at a greater disadvantage because the funding isn't being put into the subject areas in their catchment school?

Hula and Hmb and fisil are the ones to ask....

To me the whole thing is a bit daft. In a perfect world a child who was gifted in, say , languages would go to a language collage, where the teaching will be better and facilities first rate. But as you say, you don't get the choice.

And the other thing is that children still have to do all the same subjects with a tiny bit of choice, so you still have to do languages in a science collage and sciences in a language collage. So I teach science in a language collage. The language labs are first rate, and our labs are not, but the children still do well in sciences and we are meeting our targets for KS3/4 results.

I would try not to worry too much about it. Getting your child into a school where they feel happy, and which has a similar ethos to you and your family in, to my mind, more important.

GeorginaA - our catchment secondary is a Specialist Sports College and it is the same here (Stoke on Trent LEA)..basically you have little or no chance of going to a school outside your catchment area.......unless its an under-achieving school........and to me specialisation without choice is pointless. My dd has a major heart problem and I don't see how a specialits sports college will best serve her needs. I know that I can get her into another school based on her medical condition, but what about 'Johnny down the road' who just prefers art to footie, he won't have a choice.

Hi
I'm a secondary French teacher - and I'm with hmb - the systeme is utterly ridiculous - I turned down the chance to apply to be a languages college as I thought it was so silly - heaven only knows why it is supposed to be a 'good idea' - the only way it works is that specialist colleges get more money - so we apply to be one to get more money - we get a bit more money to do some stuff better - results go up a bit and the powers that be think it's the specialist status that's done it.... BIZARRE!

Specialist college status is mainly a cunning wheeze for the Head to get more money - it works out at about an extra £400000 over three years and the specialist school is supposed to work with the community in some way. I've taught in a language college and in addition to having a language lab (sorry hmb), a primary level french specialist was paid for to go into the feeder primaries and evening classes were offered as part of the local continuing ed. curriculum. Money went into computers for whole school use as well. In terms of specialism, as hmb said, the children still had to do all the subjects at the language college that they would at the school down the road. It just meant that there was more money in the (nominally languages) pot.

In my last school, which got Technology status as I left, the Head's plan was to make languages optional from year 10 and get the majority of the children to do IT instead (Thomas Telford style). So lots of money for hardware which benefits the whole school and specialist staff, as opposed to, "Well, you seem to know how to turn the computer on AND off Miss X, so we've timetabled you to teach year 11 IT..."

It's nice if your child has a gift or aptitude in the specialism the college offers, but in the end it is a way for heads to get extra cash. I think specialist schools can select a small percentage of their intake - wouldn't have made difference in my last school (very rural) - but I don't think many use this option.

Hmb,bayleaf...Ds's school say that he has to take GCSE PE or an equivalent such as Dance as they are a Specialist Sports College.......can they actually enforce it as its not a 'core subject' ? I know that they have to do some curriculum PE and that you can be 'disapplied' from core subjects(is that the correct term?) for a specific reason but not not sure about PE. Do specialist colleges have different rules.

My last school became a technology college and to be honest I think it is done by schools mainly as a PR and money making scheme. The school has to find half the money to fund changes (about £50k), usually from sponserships, etc. and this is then matched. That money is then used by the school to improve facilities in the specialist area. For my last school this meant having an overhaul of the school ICT netwrok to new PCs, running new versions of Miscosift Windows and Office, 2 new computer rooms in addition, some mew technology equipment and changes to the timetable. The school timetable does shift a little as more time has to be allocated to the specialist subject area but on the whole the curroiculum choice stayed te same for option groups. Targets in the specialist area have to be set and met too - monitored internally and externally.

I didn't really notice a huge difference in what was being offered to be honest, although moved schools before it's effect really affected me.

This is the standards website which has more ifnormation.

Nome agree with you 100%. And to be fair our language departments do go into the community, work in primaries and offer translation services for local buisness etc. We also got more computers for whole school used, but they are right by the language labs, and they tend to be used most by the language departments.....our fault there

The kids do get a greater range of languages, which is excellent if that is your thing. They even get a chance to learn chinese as we are twinned with a school there and staff and students have visited. So there can be advantages, but it is all down to the luck of the draw where you end up sending your children

Sorry luckymum, I don't know if that is the case. I teach science, whick is core anyway. And I teach in a language collage and languages are also core, so I'm a blank on this.

But they can't discriminate against your child because of her heart problem and they are required to find a way to include her in all lessons, it is her right under current legislation.

Thanks for all that info. Such a shame that it isn't implemented so that there is an element of choice there

Doesn't really affect ds yet as he hasn't even started primary yet, but it does worry me slightly in terms of the gaps widening between schools. Mainly I was intrigued because it was made to be such a headline event and I realised that I knew sod all about what difference it made!

Thanks for reducing my ignorance

Hmb..my dd will get the education she deserves come hell or high water I'm more bothered at the moment with regards to ds2. Ds1 took GCSE PE and is doing OK, but ds2 would prefer something else and it seems pointless to specialise at GCSE if he isn't that interested.

It does seem a shame when there are even more subjects that a child has to do. They already have very little choice when you consider that they have to do 2 english GCSEs, 1 maths, 1 MFL, double science 2 gcses (usually). So out of 9 they already have to do 6, and then they have to do a tech subject....doesn't leave them with much choice does it?

Our school does allow them to do more than one MFL and if they do they can do a single science GCSE, but it is still quite infexable when I compare it to my choices in the 70s

Thanks for starting this Georgina, I'd ben wondering about similar things.

Another question for teachers &/or parents of 'older' children; obviously some kids show an aptitude for certain topics early but they don't all do, even if it was possible to get into your 'chosen' specialist college, how on earth could you make that choice for an 11 year old ?

I was good at most things at primary level, particularly sport but my ability for languages, maths & science didn't become obvious until much later, I certainly wasn't ready to be 'assigned' at 11.

PS Hello Bayleaf, glad to see you back !

Agree 100%. And lots of kids seem to think that if they get into a sports collage it means they don't have to english, maths and the rest. We have a performing arts collage near to us and I'm sure that the kkids think that if they go there they will be going to the school from Fame. It is a good comprehensive and it does have a mini theater, but they don't get to sing and dance all day

Oooh, I feel honoured to be mentioned as an authority on such things - you made my day pops!

I can only really echo what people have already said. It is a way to get extra money. I've worked in a technology college and a sports college. We got a fantastic tech block at the first and are getting a sports centre built right now. So you do get better facilities.

From a parents point of view, I really wouldn't use it as a direct factor in choosing where to send my child. ie. I wouldn't say "Tommy is really good at sport so he's going to a sports college." But I would use it to gain knowledge about the school. It means the school is going to have fab fascilities. It is also very difficult to get this status - a lot of fundraising and paperwork. The school has to be pretty well organised and have at least some managers who are good. So it also an indicator that the school functions well.

Use it as a way to find out stuff about the school, not as a deciding factor based on the skills of your kids. HTH - at least it means you shouldn't feel so bad about the lack of choice (which is criminal - what a mockery)!

Thank you batters/twink!
Just had an isdn line fitted ( can't get broadband) so it's much easier to nip on than before - in between surfing my ivf boards!

welcome back!

Interesting thread given that something like 50% of all secondary schools are now "specialist" (think I saw that on the news this weekend...) thanks to all the secondary school teachers for their input, I hadn't realised it had quite such a blatant ker-ching! function.
Especially nice to see Bayleaf back