Things I wish I had know when choosing schools - sharing some knowledge that those mums in the know will never tell you.

[NaturalBlondeYeahRight]

Firstly, relax. Even the dodgiest school in the area is probably not that dodgy. No child will suffer in reception/yr1/yr2 if they have parents that care.

OFSTED doesn't count for shit (fact) Make your own mind up.

Sending your child to the attached nursery means nowt in the school process.

Don't just follow your friends blindly, no one type of school suits all.

Private is not the be all and end all. Nor is it a great 'back up' plan.

Going to church for a year will a three year old doesn't fool any vicar (lighthearted)

Anymore???

quote from friend who teaches at one - selective grammar schools can be rife with eating disorders, anxiety and depression secondary to perfectionism and pressure to perform

If you do insist on paying attention to Ofsted reports, read the words, not the score.

God yes, SockMonster -- our old school's report said 'Although some parents complained of bullying we saw no evidence of this'. Yup.

I went to an open day on the weekend for a traditional public school (senior). They have centuries of history, impressive grounds etc. The HM ended his talk by telling us to go and look at other schools, get a feel for the atmosphere of each school and pick the school that was best for YOUR child. He was quite prepared to accept that his school wouldn't be the right school for every child present.

So remember that no matter how impressive the external elements are, if the ethos of the school really doesn't suit you child then its not a good choice.

Pastoral care can still matter to the brightest child.

A child who is unhappy at school will not be learning however good the teaching.

Or if they are learning and doing well, the fallout can still be horrendous.

And yes, yes, yes to this one:

"SonorousBip Fri 10-May-13 11:24:30
Check out the office staff - they will tell you a lot more about the "tone" of the school than anything the head stands up and says when all eyes are on him/her."

A school that can't keep its office staff happy, probably can't keep anybody happy. And disgruntled office staff can make life very difficult for everybody, parents, children and teachers alike. Besides, stressed and disgruntled office staff may well be a sign that they are dealing with a lot of complaints...

When I ring reception at dd's secondary they always sound positive and helpful: you get the immediate impression that they are used to having good communication with both parents and other staff.

Why oh why did this thread not exist when I was filling in DD's application? [bangs head against keyboard]

This is all great advice. I have been (still am!) incredibly stressed over school choice [bangs head again]. It's great to read your comments, thanks all. But I do so wish I had some perspective, found something like this before applying! I think this thread must be saved for posterity.

Agree agree agree about office and also support staff. When your child runs out of lunch money, loses their bag or phone, or forgets where they are supposed to be, it is often those people that are around and they really can affect the feel of the school. Cheery and kindly efficiency and imagination when sorting out glitches makes a huge difference - on a practical level but also in making the school feel welcoming and safe (very important when bigger problems emerge - you do want your dc to feel the school will help those who need it).

And my tip - don't listen to gossip. At secondary, it is almost always wildly wrong - and propagated either by those with an axe to grind or those who miss the playground huddles and intimacy of primary. If you are worried about something, go to the school (usually).

Choose your local school unless there is a very compelling reason not to. Being able to get there quickly and easily, preferably without using a car, will really help your quality if life and you'll meet your neighbours with children.

(I know this won't be possible if you live miles away from any school)

Go for feel of the place rather than the fanciness (or otherwise) of the chairs in reception. Honestly, I have heard prospective parents say they preferred the school up the road because they have brand new chairs...

Brilliant thread.

Community is massively important, especially at primary level. Think about after school, playdates, making friends (your child and you), reciprocal favours between friends re pick-us etc.
Walking distance is a genuine plus point, so your children will have friends in the immediate neighbourhood.
Many inner London state schools are fabulous.
Uniforms can be a GOOD thing, as long as you avoid hideous polyester trousers.
School lunches are not that bad, plus children get free fruit.
Ofsted is often immaterial.
Happy hildren are generally a good indicator.
Small is most definitely not always beautiful, and large class sizes don't necessarily hinder children. Conversely, if class sizes are too small, you may find your child not in a friendship group, or totally outnumbered by gender.
Even if you are an atheist church schools are often really caring annd offer much in the way of community.
Don't stress about school gates shite or trying to be every mum's new best mate.

sorry for the essay - I love DD's school!

Agree about local school. It makes a mahoosive difference to quality of life if you can walk (and have done the car thing at previous school so understand terrible stress of trying to park at 5 to 9 or having to arrive at 2.30 for 3.30 finish in order to secure spot less than 5 miles away).

Agree about office staff. Current school - office ladies v friendly and helpful. Previous school - sat behind thick (bulletproof?!) glass and looked hostile.

Don't reject big schools. With three classes across a year group, the teaching is moderated so you can't have one duff/lazy/unpleasant teacher mucking things up for your dc as you might in a small school. Also there is a bigger pool of friends for your dcs.

Look at the school library. I find this is a good indicator of how much they care about literacy and how

whoops

how they view the importance of allocating budget to book buying

I don't necessarily agree with those saying pick your nearest school/one you can walk to. I have a primary school 5 minutes walk from my house. My children go to a school nearly 15 mins drive away. It's a much, much better school. My children love their school. The drive doesn't bother me or them at all.

Totally agree about very small schools though. They seem nice and cosy, but are often under-equipped and have no economies of scale. Plus there's a smaller range of children to be friends with.

MN needs to put a link to this thread in it's section on choosing schools

This is all so very true.
Non of the things that have caused people I know to change schools can be easily foreseen. They depend so much on the details of peer groups and child parent teacher relationships.

The very clever DCs who left our school couldn't have known in advance that the old HT was hopeless at G&T or that in a MC area they would be the only very bright children. DD2 isn't quite that bright, but fell on her feet with 3 bright peers and a different HT.

You either get DD1 or she drives you mad, for Y4-6 she got the one teacher who got her perfectly. This is shear luck.

Likewise that The girl who moved to us because of being bullied fell into DD1s class and instantly felt she'd always been there, not the more difficult year groups on either side.

Unless it looks an impossible fit give your nearest school a try. We have no option, but to drive to any school and DDs and especially me would have found making friends easy if we'd walked.

Go and have a look... you will be able to recognise a good happy school with all your senses.

Does it look well cared for? Do the toilets smell? Is it noisy or is there a purposeful hum? Is it clean? Do they listen to you when you ask questions? For primaries, is the Head or Deputy out there during the start and end of the day?

Look at the displays, whose work is up there, is it the children's or is it the teacher's? Is there work from different levels up there, as this will show you that every child is celebrated.

Go past at the start or end of day, is it a scrum... we once had parents fighting with umbrellas over a parking space in front of an Ofsted Inspector... you had to be there to see the Head sort it out and get the parents apologise to each other and the children who had seen it... Leadership and management came out well, LOL.

By all means consult the Ofsted report, but find someone who can read between the lines as the reports are restricted in their descriptors.

Finally, don't forget to ask your DC if they like it!

Really LaQueen? What about the Dad? What about the poor parents of my parents' generation who wanted better for their DCs? Or are we talking about "at the moment."

Not challenging, just interested.

Choose your local school unless there is a very compelling reason not to. Being able to get there quickly and easily, preferably without using a car, will really help your quality if life and you'll meet your neighbours with children

I agree with many of the points above but probably this the most. Three children, 2 almost through secondary and 1 about to finish primary and this is the thing that has made the biggest difference.

Yes, Elsie, but I'd add:

...and be prepared to find that actually your child's misery at the local school might just outweigh the convenience of being able to get them there easily and you might find yourself driving 5 miles daily down sodding country roads to get them to the next-nearest instead despite swearing that you would never pander to a child this way

Go to your local school unless there is a compelling reason not to.

At some point you will feel that the school has let your child down.

Small schools do mean limited friendship groups, but at least children learn to get on with everyone. There are 8 children in my son's year and they are a really tight little group. Given a wider choice I'm sure they wouldn't all choose to be friends. They also tend to be given a lot of responsibility and are very good at helping younger children.

I think LaQueen is correct - studies have shown a link between the education of the mother and achievement of children. Even if the father is present and plays a big part, the education of the mother is more important. (Obviously only statistics. Difference will probably be minimal and there will be plenty of exceptions.)

schools are more about selecting an elite than about learning, your child's real education will take place at least as much outside school as inside it. They will forget almost everything they "learnt" at primary school apart from how to read, write and perhaps play a musical instrument.

"Good" schools are often those whose head is good not just at paperwork but at publicity and at fiddling their results to make them look better than they are. As a result they attract bright, motivated children - but that doesn't mean the teaching is any better. There are bad teachers who appear to get good results.

The best view of the school comes from those whose children have left, they can be more honest

DO listen to those who knock the school, even if they don't have children there. It will tell you want you need to check on when you visit. Check with the children, not the teachers or parents (unless their children have now left). Many parents refuse to see any faults in their child's school.

Children who go to "poor" schools sometimes develop excellent self-teaching skills and that helps them at university. Those who go to a "good" school but are less academically able may become demoralised and do less well as a result.

Look at a school's homework policy. Our first school does very little homework and I love this.
It also does very little in the way of dressing up , another thing I am grateful for.
I hung around the school gates and asked the mums what they thought of the school.