11+ being scrapped

[musu]

At one school in Essex here

Interesting development which follows on from Bucks CC overhauling their 11+ and trying to make it tutor proof (although everyone I know in Bucks is still employing tutors).

beatback

Well done, me too. I just love it when I tell people how awful education used to be, they soon back track if they have criticised my English or Maths.

Funny thing is both myself and at least one of our dc are dyslexic and dyspraxic. Our dd is also not too bright, bless her. Today I choked on my tea when she announced she was working to pass 11+ dh had told her about his grammar school education. We don't live near any grammar schools, lol

beatback, you sound just like I used to. It's never too late you know.
I don't have a GCSE/O'level to my name but have a HND, B.A Hons, PgCE with Masters level points.
Also a level 2 City &Guild in Numeracy and Literacy MY GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT!

Thank you more than potatoprints, i am sure that your DC will be able to show people, how bright she is and if they were grammar schools in your area, i am sure with the right help she could pass her 11+.One of the best posters on Mumsnet is "CREAM TEAS" who is a University Admissions tutor, who is constantly telling people how people with "S.E.N " are getting to University and are among the "BRIGHTEST" students,30 years ago this would have been impossible, instead of S.E.N there would have been E.S.N.

POTATO PRINTS. Actually seing my niece at a "RUSSELL GROUP UNIVERSITY SPEARS ME ON FOR 5 MINUTES" SHE GOT 4 A"S AT ALEVEL" .When i tell her i dont have any Academic Qualifactions she does not believe me, she is always asking me about all kinds of things. "ONE OF MY BIGGEST PROBLEMS IS CONCENTRATION".I have a tendency to just switch off.

Not quite 30 years ago - 28, actually - I went up to Cambridge. I'm dyspraxic. I was far from unique there. I really don't think hyperbole or SHOUTING enhances whatever point it is you are trying to make.

Its such a good thing we moved on. I know its not PC and I shouldn't laugh but Peter Kay has such good observation when he talks about Theresa, Paddy MCGuinness and himself on "the thick table". That was mine, yours? and many thousands of peoples memories of school.

"I KEEP MISSPELLING QUALIFACATIONS I WONDER WHY" THEY KEEP ASKING WHY.

I am not trying to make any point russian its just that someone tried to take the piss, and if you made it to "CAMBRIDGE" you must have had a great education and great teachers who we able to work with you to overcome your dyspraxia and enable you to atain a OXBRIDGE EDUCATION.

Russians

What does hyperbole mean? I don't think beatback is shouting at anyone.

Beatback

Thanks for the comments about dd, but bless her its a bit hopeless atm. She is 9 and is really struggling with Maths, she's just away with the fairies. It took her so long to do a few sums today but she got there in the end. English is slightly better but not much. She is a gifted musician though, so hey ho! Grammar school I think not

NO EXAGGERATION RUSSIAN, ITS GREAT WIKEPEDIA,PEOPLE CANT BAMBOOZLE PEOPLE ANYMORE WITH WORDS.

Isn't that the whole point.

Good education and being bright = grammar school potential.
If one of those is missing it may be possible to pass 11+ with tutoring.
If both are missing you don't stand a cat in hells chance.
I think it is the same with GCSEs A levels or any other academic qualification.
If you are constantly coming from behind you have to work twice as hard as anybody else to gain the same results.
I think if this is the case for a persons dc they are doing them a disservice by insisting on 11+ preparation.

Passing the exam is just the start and not the end as some people seem to think- it was no help passing if the rest are all much brighter.
If you have more than 2% you have a line somewhere between 2DC s of equal ability.
I don't see a need for any selection- other than streaming once you are there.

2% is far too narrow.

I agree yellow.

The most selective independent schools allow a greater margin than that!

You really do not need to be a genius, to benefit from or indeed require a different sort of education from the norm.

"You really do not need to be a genius, to benefit from or indeed require a different sort of education from the norm."

So what % would you suggest?

I'd say anyone in the top 10% should have the option.

That's not to say that anyone with a child in that bracket has to send their DC. Some may feel their own DC would be better served away froma selective environment. But parents know their DC best, and should have the choice, I feel. Just as they do if they have money.

word may think differently but I'm sticking to somewhere between 5% to 10%. Nearer 10% ideally. I think those at the lower end of that range would arguably benefit even more than those at the top, though slightly differently.

These kids should have a proper community in their school. 5% to 10% would bring in a range of talents across the disciplines which is vital for any decent school and a sufficient range of personalities to allow proper friendships to form. I believe 2% would be very different and lead to a poor educational experience, which, to quote seeker, wouldn't be 'fair'.

Cross post :). Good call word!

I think it's the community aspect of it that is so important.

Parents don't want their DC to be outliers. They want them to hang out with plenty of kids just like them. They want them to be normal and for school to treat them as such.

For one thing I don't want my DS growing up thinking he's Daddy Cool nor do I want him thinking he's a bit odd!

I think that's the problem, isn't it? If you are going to treat being very academically bright in the same way that you treat very talented musicians and ballet dancers, for example, and argue that their intelligence means they need to be educated separately, then you can't go more than 2%. And it's pretty easy to identify the 2%. However, then you have all the social issues you talk about. 10% takes you into the "very bright but within "normal"" range- so you get the coaching thing raising it's ugly head again. And it gets all competitive and grim. There has to be a better way!

I don't think coaching would raise a kid from the top 25% to the top 10% seeker.

It doesn't work with private schools! Your averagely bright, top 25% student cannot win himself a place at Westminster or St Pauls or wherever, with all the tutoring in the land.

And, as far as I'm aware, it doesn't work with the state super selectives either.

You can't compare it with the Kent system.

Plus you've got to understand that lots of parents don't want their DC in such schools, wherever they sit academically.

It doesn't work with private schools! Your averagely bright, top 25% student cannot win himself a place at Westminster or St Pauls or wherever, with all the tutoring in the land.

Interestingly not apparently according to the head of St Paul's Girls. They find the 'over tutored don't thrive' allegedly.

Apparently you have to declare the tutoring you've had in some schools. From the Times:

Clarissa Farr, High Mistress at St Paul’s Girls’ School, said: “We are seeing an increase in tutoring and therefore we now ask parents when they apply to declare what tutoring they have provided for their children.

The application form for SPGS requires parents to sign a declaration stating exactly what level of tutoring has been had and the sanction for false declarations is the withdrawal of the offer of a place.

I've just read the beginning of this thread, and cannot believe the level of insanity described in some of the posts about the intensity of tutoring in grammar school areas.

Its not that I don't understand how people get caught up in the panic, its just the whole entire system is massively mad.

If only half that energy was going into improving schools as a whole. Or re-structuring our ideas on 'best'. Or both.