11+ being scrapped

[musu]

At one school in Essex here

Interesting development which follows on from Bucks CC overhauling their 11+ and trying to make it tutor proof (although everyone I know in Bucks is still employing tutors).

Another example: a lot of families will send their DC to a Kent superselective GS but if their DC fails to make the grade for a SS and gets a second tier GS (and there are also third tier GSs...) they send him or her to a private school. The market is competitive, vibrant and exciting for those with brains and money... and there are also some excellent comprehensive schools. There are also sink schools for the leftovers that are not nice places to be.

I agree about that need for comparable measurement Bonsoir and the taking of a clutch of GCSEs here and a clutch there does skew that measurement. The same for degrees, with all their varying formats. I think those in the business of apportioning weight to different degrees pretty much know the score though which is why it's not true to say that a 2.1 from University X is as hard won or taxing as the same degree from University Y. And as you'll know, the UCAS form requires GCSEs to be listed in reverse order of the year they were taken, so that's obvious too. Although there are some catches to that of course, depending on admissions criteria.

That's true yellow. I think what ds school says is take em early if its ' purposeful'. And for DS for example, who wants to start a couple of new languages in year 10, he will buy himself some time in the schedule by knocking a few out early. He's gonna need it tbh!

I don't think DCs ought to be allowed to buy themselves time for more GCSEs. I think the system ought to measure a standardized level of achievement at a fixed point in a DC's life - that some DCs can manage 6 subjects while others have capacity for 13 is fine. Measuring capacity at a given point in time is useful per se.

I would nevertheless forget about MFL GCSEs entirely and just do the standardized CEFR exams - that's the global trend.

TBH I think it's a given that most (all) of the boys at his school could manage a set of GCSEs in year 11 if that's what they had to do.

There's no suggestion that they're somehow making their lives easier. Far from it .

Except that simply being able to manage more ignores the question of challenge and depth. Some bright students are ready earlier to sit these exams and to hang on until the end of Y11 amounts to a marking of time, which is a waste educationally.

That's it entirely yellow.

DS could hang on to show he can juggle however many GCSEs, but it'd be a bit daft really.
Better to learn a couple more languages, I'd have thought, if that what he fancies.

That said, I am completely against the cynical practice of getting students to sit as many modules as possible, as early as possible and then endlessly retaking them! This must be a bloody nightmare for the majorioty of students!

Well our school does it differently from yours word but I can see that the 'purposeful' caveat intends the same end, which is not to waste educational opportunities for bright kids but to maximise them within the system we have. I can see it's not just attempting to notch up a basic number of high grades in the easiest possible way.

"No, it's nothing like that. Kent has all sorts of schools and the grammar schools are not all the same - far from it. They are highly differentiated from one another and operate in a market place. In Kent, state and private schools compete for the same DC and so you get specialities ie an all IB grammar school. In any case, lots of children in Kent do not take the Kent test (11+) - there is absolutely no obligation or expectation for DC to take it."

The grammar schools do not operate in a market place- they go by catchment.

It is very unusual for a clever child not to go in for the test- but obviously there is no compulsion to take it.

"Some Kent comprehensives have a grammar stream so DC who have taken and passed the Kent test go there."

This isn't true- there are no comprehensive schools in Kent, and it is very, very unusual for a child who passed the Kent Test to go anywhere but a grammar school. There are faith secondaries, but once again, they tend to be populated by children who didn't pass.

Some of the non selective schools have a grammar stream- but most do not have enough high achievers to make it a true grammar set. My ds is in th grammar set, and there are plenty of children in the set with him who scored low 4s in SATs.

You do not know what goes on in your county, seeker. You are assuming, quite erroneously, that what goes on local to you happens all over the county. It doesn't. There are grammar schools without catchments as well as GSs with catchments and there are areas where there are no GSs only comprehensives with GS streams. You need to venture out of your village from time to time!

Could you name some of the comprehensives? Oh and some of the grammars without catchments? Even the super selectives use catchment to deal with being over subscribed.

It seems to me that Kent would be a model of how not to do things in a new system seeker.

Our superselective uses distance home - school only in the very marginal case of two students tying for the last available place. Other than that geography counts not a jot.

A school that has a catchment area is by definition not a superselective.

Sorry, that's what I meant- even with super selectives in the event of a tie distance is used. I was trying to make the point that grammar schools do not "operate in a market place"

On a less serious note how many of you would pass the 11+ if you were just given it now with no "TUTORING" or practice. I bet 90% of the adult population would fail particuarly the Maths without a calculator.

KNOW WITHOUT ANY PRACTICE.

You have a pretty poor view of the adult population!
If I lived in Kent I would be able to have a steady job as a tutor.

I can't do NVR!

Cognitive me too! I've never seen a fellow "Old Girl"(!) on here! Hello!

And teach the maths that hasn't been covered in school. And make sure they have the vocabulary necessary to do the verbal reasoning. And teach the tricks that make it possible to do 50 questions in 45 minutes......

As I have said repeatedly, the children of involved, aware, literate parents of whatever social class [rolls eyes] are at a massive advantage when it comes to preparation for the 11+ (as in so many other areas of life). Which means that disadvantaged children are at a massive disadvantage (as in so many other areas of life).

Sweeping this undeniable fact under the carpet is just plain stupid.