11+ being scrapped

[musu]

At one school in Essex here

Interesting development which follows on from Bucks CC overhauling their 11+ and trying to make it tutor proof (although everyone I know in Bucks is still employing tutors).

So why aren't those high achievers in the grammar schools, then?

If you search out new deal 1946 on the internet you will see the labour report for windsor outlining labour policy and if you look under clem atlee on wikipedia you will see housing act 1946 national insurance act 1946, national health act 1946 new towns act 1946 these came together with the 1944 education act to create labours new deal 1946.

Is there a reason you're not engaging with my question?

Because they did not quite pass their 11+ but they were not just told they could not achieve. The reason they did not go to the Grammar is because they liked the school they were at,and comfortable in the 6th form. Knowing the school will enable them to achieve.

The 11+ was implemented after the 1945 election. It was, I think, originally a conservative policy. It was all about whether or not you wentnto a school that offered post 15 education or not.

And the going to Russell Groups from secondary moderns?

I still think you are stretching it a bit beatback, housing, Nat Ins etc. etc., aren't Education.

The 1944 Act was cross party, and didn't specify grammars or secondary moderns. The post war Labour Government chose to implement the policy as Grammar/Secondary Modern, although I think their proposals initially came at the end of 1945. I think they showed a lack of vision, but that's a separate issue.

I suspect whichever party had got in would have implemented the '44 Act, and I doubt whether any other party would have had any more vision either.

Well i dont know the kids personally but i do believe kids from at least one secondary school in trafford got to a russell group university last year. seeker do you want to know the names because i dont know them and mumsnet is supposed to be annon.

No. You said that kids regularly go from secondary moderns to RGUs. I think that's the sort of statement that needs backing up. I don't think "well, I know of one" is exactly evidence.

And "I do believe that...." Is even less evidence!

Ok seeker. Define what you mean by regular are we talking 20 or 3 kids here.

Seeker i think the british goverment needs you to negotiate in europe, for us. We end up with all are money back." WELL DONE" i am not going to go on the schools site and mention names.

our money back tired grammar sorry

You said regular- you define it!

ok 3 kids then.

I am very pleased that 3 children went to RGU from Trafford Secondary moderns. However, it doesn't really support your contention that secondary moderns are better than comprehensives, does it?

I would really like to hear why you think secondary moderns schools are a good idea. I assume you do, because if you support grammar schools, you have to support secondary moderns too.

I dont support secondary moderns i support selective education, as i have said many times selective education if used correctly can benefit the top middle and bottom, the bottom should get specalist education that enables them to be literate when they leave education and capable of employment, with the chance of improvement either though work or education later in life when the time is right for them. The middle should have a education that equates to 5A to C Maths and English, which is the stepping stone to further education,the top should be pushed to achieve international standards of education,thus benefiting everyone in the country with highly qualified graduates. I do believe the best way to do this is by selective education, as for the word "SECONDARY MODERN" it is a word that has all kinds of stigma attached to it ,its like a bad swear word a throw back to the bad times of the 1960s. Even in kent which is "SNOB RIDDEN PLACE" for no reason they dont use the word secondary modern, people just use that word to shock. So no i am not in favor of 1960s style Secondary moderns but in favor of 2013 selective education, that benefits all the relevant groups.

I don't use the words secondary modern to shock. I use them to remind people that selective education means telling the majority of children that they have failed at the age of 10. It shouldn't mean that, but it does. And anyone who has actually experienced the system, and is honest with themselves and others will know that.

can i just say seeker it been a pleasure to debate with you and good night because im really tired now.

Too often you see posters referring to 'the comprehensive' and you have to translate - ah this is Kent they are talking about so it's really a secondary modern.

If they are all doing so well in secondary moderns and getting top exam results it shows that the 11+ sorted them wrongly.

I failed 11+ and, despite being at a very good secondary modern, I felt a failure- it didn't need seeker's postings! I felt a failure. Other people with their 'what do you want to be when you grow up?............really........can you still do that?' made me feel the failure. It was the expectation that you fail an exam at the age of 10 years and suddenly people don't think you can be a doctor, lawyer etc.

We are nearly at the 70th anniversary of the formation of secondary modern schools- therefore the name itself is stupid!

I common parlance though, and I am talking about the sixties and early seventies, you did 'pass' or 'fail' the 11+. I remember our headmaster dishing out the results letters with a little spiel about 'you haven't passed or failed, you have been selected for the appropriate school'.

Next morning in the playground:'Did you pass?' Not 'which school were you selected for?'.

In those days the exam was compulsory. I get the impression that it's different now in those GS/SM areas.

I did just that MTS- so did lots of people that I know. It doesn't stop the feeling of failure at 10. I gave up telling people how I was going to achieve a good career I just stuck to 'I haven't decided yet' it was simpler.
When I got to the grammar school lots had left at 16 yrs. The system did not work- it is even less likely to work today where the tutoring to get in has become an industry.