League table of Ex Poly's ?

[Gunznroses]

I have no dc of university age, but i've been wondering, its been a few good yrs now since all poly's were upgraded to Uni's. Does anyone think that we might be seeing the emergence of a few climbing up the hierarchy ladder of status, maybe even entering Russell Group in future ? Oxford Brooke's in particular seems to be coming up a lot with youngsters who couldn't get into Oxford or Cambridge.

Even if RG is not on the card's which ex poly's would you say are higly rated at the moment ?

Indeed. I think we are agree. poly's will always be wrong and perhaps sends out a signal that someone went to a polytechnic. Actually plenty of us tend never to use uni or poly anyway as using it suggests you are either 18 or badly educated.

We went into the MBA's or MBAs or whatever it was that was relevant in my other place and there was that big divide - the better educated people do not put the apostrophe in. There is no possessive and also if you were putting it in as in don't because of missing letters you would have to put it in after each letter.

Anyway I am just pointing out how some people who read what you write may take the view so mumsnetters putting in job applications do not write something that some people will hold against them.

Xenia, you are creating a problem where there isn't one. It really doesn't matter a jot whether people type MBA's or MBAs and, while the latter might be considered more modern, I don't think the convention is sufficiently established for one to be right and the other wrong.

I doubt if mumsnetters need your lessons in grammar, Xenia, as on a job application they would list the names of the institutions they attended in full rather than, if they did indeed attend more than one poly, write, 'I attended 2 poly's/polys/polies'.

poly's will always be wrong and perhaps sends out a signal that someone went to a polytechnic.

Poly's might be wrong, but it gives absolutely no indication at all about the education of the person who wrote it. How could it? I have worked at both RG and post-1992 universities, and in both settings there is a full range of ability in English grammar.

Indeed, my mother left school at 14, but she is still better at English than me with my 3 degrees from RG universities .

I am sent a lot of CVs. Employers have to much choice they reject them for the smallest of errors. I was only trying to be helpful. Apostrophes can be the litmus test.

Xenia you are so far up your own tight arse that you seem to think every Mner on here would be approaching you with their cv. I can assure you I am very successful in my own field but we don't all boast about it on MN, its boring.

I couldnt really care less what you thynk about my grammer or spellingz, apostrophies whatever. When I come on mn i come to let my hair down away from all the dotting the i's and crossing the t's, just like some people like to swear all the time on MN it doesn't mean thats how they speak in a professional setting. My spellings on mn are no indication of how I might write a report or a professional email. I enjoy the freedom of being able to type anyhow i like and when last i checked it wasn't a requirement to join MN.

Now why dont you jump off that high horse you're on before it throws you off and correct all the errors here, after which you should get your nice thin blond man to give you a good 'seeing to' so you can breath.

I most definitely didn't go to oxbridge!

Xenia, in my brief Google, it was clear that several reputable grammar guides published within the last 20 - 30 years actually stated that MBA's was the correct form. The emerging consensus that 'MBAs is the only correct form' is really quite recent - so those using it may not be 'less educated', simply taught the previous rule.

(I am of the era - 1970s - when grammar was not taught in schools at all. So while I am very well educated - 1st class degree + PhD in a science subject from Oxbridge - it is not an area in which I was taught 'the rules'. I have learned more grammar in the past 4-5 years, while doing my PGCE and then teaching, than I did in my entire formal schooling,)

Xenia, you'd have have a hard time figuring me out. I didn't even go to university but am able to use apostrophes correctly. I've also taught English successfully to doctors, lawyers, scientists and architects. My bog standard comprehensive must have done something right, despite the fact I quit just before A levels.

I have worked with several graduates of Russell group universities who are barely able to string a grammatically correct sentence together.

As has my friend, who left school at 16 to shovel shit at a riding stables and is now at director level in her organisation.

Keep on feeling superior though, by all means. You're very entertaining.

If my CV gets rejected because of a misplaced punctuation mark, despite a couple of decades experience and a Msc, then it's not a place I would be happy in.

Been to 3 RG unis, BA, MBA, Dip MRS, Dip CIM, and MA and I have never mastered the apostrophe, and once, before the days of Spellcheck, managed to spell Emperor four different ways in an essay........ Being dyslexic I am a great believer that it is important to look beyond such trivialities to the quality of the ideas and argument, especially on Mumsnet which is enough of a timewaster without spending hours checking your grammar and spelling!

I am talking about new graduates. The genuinely are rejected because of issues like that and it is crucial parents tell their children that and schools and universities tell them.

I also think we all learn something new every day. I do. So if mumsnet helps some posters learn that poly's makes them look a bit silly then they can choose to carry on using it or give it up, but at least have the information.

I've read through this thread and the only person looking very very silly here is you Xenia you sound more and more of a silly woman with every post!

and to add, many on here don't care about all this silly spelling stuff, its an internet forum not a job application.

"I am sent a lot of CVs. Employers have to much choice they reject them for the smallest of errors. I was only trying to be helpful. Apostrophes can be the litmus test."

Misusing apostrophes is a silly schoolboy error. Almost as bad as not knowing the difference between to, too and two.

lady lech Of course a CV has to be impressive in every way but worrying about a post on Mumsnet? A bit anal, and life is too short.....

Totally agree, there are times where I would expect spelling, punctuation and grammar to be correct and this would include CVs, letters of job applications, documents from schools and the like.

However, pointing out other people's errors on facebook, twitter a forum etc is something I consider to be quite rude and unnecessary. It also leaves you with egg on your face when you point out someone else's errors and you then have your own errors subsequently pointed out.

[now waits for someone to come along and point out my errors]. Disclaimer: I only have a pseudo RG degree, so I can be excused as inferior.

I do not usually on the internet point it out, but I thought it might be a helpful lesson. "poly's " is never right and it makes people look foolish and of course it does not matter on here, but it matters on CVs.

POV, absolutely. This is why it is so important schools and parents do tell teenagers these things. No one would have a list in order of Oxford, Cambridge, Oxford B ex poly.

..unless you were wanting to marry an Oxford undergraduate in which case some women do deliberately target the town.

..unless you were wanting to marry an Oxford undergraduate in which case some women do deliberately target the town

What evidence do you have for such a claim?

As a university lecturer who does a lot of outreach work in a huge range of schools, I would be extremely surprised if you had any.

Universities are chosen for a range of reasons, some more personal than academic. Yes, there are cases where young people chose universities in particular places because of existing relationships. Both male and female BTW, rather than your sexist assumptions.

But the idea that many young women sweat blood over their A levels for the marriage market is absurd. What century do you think we are living in?

Loads. In fact Oxbridge men used to marry the language student girls in the towns. It's very well known.

Look at how many mumsnetters earn much less or nothing compared to their men and live off male earnings for most of their lives - it's common practice - women marry up and men's ego is flattered by the pretty little thing who was never up to much and could never have got into Oxbridge.

You do not have to sweat much blood over A levels for ex polys or language or cookery courses in towns were richer young men hang out.

Sadly I live in a century where 4 in 5 women choose to marry up, someone who earns more who is sa bit older and a bit better educated. It comes up on just about every mumsnet thread when we ask why the woman gave up work and not the man.

In fact Oxbridge men used to marry the language student girls in the towns. It's very well known

That is not evidence. First it is an anecdote, and second just because the marriages took place, that does not mean that the women chose their universities because they were planning to marry someone from Oxbridge.

If you have two earners it can make sense for the one of the lower income to reduce their work to care for children. It is usually the women because we live in a sexist society which generally pays women less and current state policy which gives massively more maternity rights than paternity encourage this.

I can't even work out what 'marrying up' or down means. But I guess that is because I believe in all forms of equality and reject the idea that some people are inherently better than other.

I'm obviously a 1 in 5 then...

Despite actively choosing to be a SAHM for 7 years, I am better educated than my husband (Oxbridge PhD vs London BA), and at the point I had children we earned exactly the same (to the £1 as I recall).

I cared for my children in their early years from a deep conviction - just as deep as yours, Xenia, but different - that my particular children would benefit more from having me as their primary carer and first educator in their early years than they would have done by me subcontracting that role and choosing to earn money instead.

So far I have no evidence whatever that my strategy has not been wholly successful.

What a strange and antiquated view. One thing that has struck me about my DDs and their peers is that they are not remotely interested in the idea of marriage or children, and certainly would not make any life decisions based on finding a man, of any description. Even those sorts of girls who are known as "Sloanes" are a very different animal to the ones in my day, who admittedly went for wealthy upper class men like heat seeking missiles, now they are bleached blonde, slightly orange and just as prone to falling out of nightclubs and sleeping around as their Newcastle and Cardiff peers, just with a posher accent.

And now that there are equal numbers of the sexes at universities including Oxbridge it can't be such a meat market anyway. The 1 girl for every 10 boys was a magnet for all those attending crappy secretarial colleges back in the 70s but now anyone forking out for that sort of thing would have much less chance of finding a husband, or getting a job...............