Mums' playground cliques

[Lobe]

Can I just start by saying: IT REALLY DOESN'T BOTHER ME!
My three year old has just started nursery school (he's a September baby and has started earlier than he would have done).
I was wondering if the playground behaviour among mums exists everywhere else? When we go to pick our children up, there are always groups of mums in threes, fours and fives, who completely ignore newcomers. It is SO cliquey! Today I arrived at picking up time at exactly the same time as four mums who also have children at nursery and they completely ignored me! I tagged along behind them feeling like a gooseberry ... Fortunately I do know quite a few other mums at the school and chat to them but does this little 'gang' behaviour happen elsewhere?!

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I find this has also happened at both playgroups, nursery schools and primary schools.

To be honest, I just let them get on with it and don't get involved.

Although, saying that, I have become good friends with two ladies from my son's playgroup as my son is best friends with one of their sons.

Talk about a small world - I moved from my last house 3 years ago but am still in contact with my friends from the old road. We meet up every now and again. (Although, that road was also cliquey). It seemed we couldn't all be friends together, one would get the "hump" if you were seen socialising with one of the others.

Anyway, I have been out quite a few times for a girly night out with my two friends from nursery. Last Friday, one of my friends from my old road popped round for a coffee. She mentioned about popping round to my old house last Friday night (I have become friends with the couple who bought it) for a drink.

When the girl who bought my house phoned me up, I asked if she was at work. She said she was and worked at a local estate agents. When I asked the name, I mentioned that one of my friends from school also worked at the same estate agents. It turned out they are really good friends and even stayed the night together when they had their firm's christmas do. Talk about a small world. Whenever my friend from the nursery mentioned this girl's name who she worked with and what they got up, I never put two and two together. Goes to show you have to be careful what you say as you never know who knows who else!

yes i can vouch for it happening at my ds school too. As you say there are groups of three,four and five mums all huddled together totally ignoring others it really gets on my wick,aaargh!!

Yes, happens at ds's school and dd's nursery. Doesn't bother me as I know the mums who I like talking to and the ones in the cliques don't really appeal to me as friends anyway (if you listen to what they're talking, it's usually very boring).

That should say 'talking about' - oops!

It's good to know I'm not the only one who's noticed this behaviour! The other day, four mums walked together down the road to the school and looked right through me when I said 'hello'. I just followed on behind them like a lost sheep. I'm fortunate in that I do know other mums and chat to them, but it's not worth getting annoyed if the cliquey ones don't even acknowledge your existence.
I love the description 'horsey mums'. Brilliant!

Lobe, just seen this conversation. I remember when my first son started nursery being just as bemused as you by the unfriendliness of certain groups. Like you, I had friends, and it didn't really get under my skin, but it did bring me up short, especially if my son came running out of class happily talking to the children of the cliquey mothers. Some would even talk to my son while he was with their children, but would blank both him and me the minute we were together.

As Chanel and JacquiD say, it goes on at primary school too. I remember one incident really clearly: I was on maternity leave with my second son, and used to take my baby and 5 year old to school. (The baby was a bit of an ice breaker, of course, so if all else fails, borrow a baby for the school run or a puppy, Lobe!) Anyway, one morning I stopped in a tiny cafe for a drink after dropping my son off. The baby was in a sling. As I sat down I realised we were but inches away from a group of school mothers, clipboards out and pens at the ready. I couldn't help but eavesdrop a little - they were organising a school fair. The mothers definitely knew my face from school, and when there was a big lull in the conversation, I attempted a vague smile in their direction. Absolutely nothing registered with them. They looked right through me. It really wound me up, so I finished my coffee and quickly left.

I am determined to crack this before my sons pass through the education system. I have joined the PTA at my son's new school and intend to make the meetings if it kills me!

Oh how depressing is this conversation. I am due to move to a completely new area and put my 2 1/2 yr old into a nursery and I was sort of relying on being able to build friendships through that - I get very shy and hate to 'force' myself on groups. I also have a squint which when I meet new people means that if I do smile and say hello they usually think I am talking to someone behind them and ignore me!!

I am obviously pregnant so maybe this will act as the ice breaker - any advice other than don't let it wind me up!!?

TLB, hope I can shed a little ray of light here!

I know my previous message sounds bad - The therapist in me says I have must have some unresolved feelings of ill-will towards certain cliquey parents. I am doing my best to be positive, though, and believe the answer is involvement in the school or nursery.

Difficult for me because I work full time - and not even in the same county as my son's school. But I have vowed to take the odd half day off to assist at, and not merely attend, school functions, when parental help is asked for. Still don't know if this is the way to go. But I'm willing to try.

If you don't work and want to make friends with other parents, then try and get involved with any parent/teacher group your nursery has set up. Also go on any class trips they organise. If you have the time, make a habit of turning up early to collect your child. I often chatted to friends and acquaintances waiting in the playground in the early afternoon (yes, I did have some!!). Lastly, party invites will soon come your way once your child settles in their class. Start conversations with the parents of the other guests and most will respond in some way. Then take it from there.

Good luck, and remember you can always come back here and let off steam if you find a clique really gets on your nerves!

TLB - I probably did make it sound worse than it really is - sorry! The thing is, you do get a few cliques, but also you do get friendly parents willing to talk to you. Having kids and a bump will be a great ice-breaker. Good luck to you

phew - OK I feel slightly better now - thought I was going to be walking into some sort of surreal minefield!!

I will try to get involved asap especially while I still only have a bump - after that will be more interesting... as I am not quite sure how my juggling skills will match up.

It is scary concept going from part-time mum of one to a full time mum of two - gulp!!

I'm all with Tigermoth1 - I've just joined our PTA. I'm also going to organise a dinner for parents in my youngests year - a lot of new mums there to set up our own clique ... he he !!!

I thought I was just being neutrotic , having gone thro school, uni and work never being with the 'IN' crowd. perhaps I'm the normal one after all.

It is very reassuring to see that this annoying set-up does occur around the place.

It's my turn to hosting the regular coffee morning for the ex-pat school mums tomorrow. My son is nowhere near school age yet so they have no trouble ignoring me whatsover. Prob have no qualms about doing it in my own house.

Off for my bath to prepare my thick skin for the morning.

I think that, often, the groups of parents will be groups who know each other because, for example, they have older kids and have become quite friendly with (and often reliant on) each other over the years - for childcare, lifts to out-of-school activities etc. In my kids' school, there are groups who know each other because they attend the local church, and others who are regulars at the local pub. Some, regrettably, are not open to new faces in the playground. Rest assured, however, that many will be -it's just a question of getting to know you!

I've experienced this cliqueyness and the ensuing paranoia big style, but I sometimes wonder whether I've been remiss too? I was at the first meeting of a new playgroup recently, and had been slightly involved in setting it up. I know I didn't make enough effort towards a Mum who arrived after I did, and who left early, never to return. There is a reason for my poor communication- I wasn't sure enough of myself to take on the role of greeter.
So perhaps this is the problem- people might think they are getting above themselves if they step out of their group to offer friendliness/ introductions.

I think the idea that a 'bump' makes it more likely for people to talk to you is interesting. Perhaps this shows that people are willing to talk, but need some obvious topic. I have made use of the various activities at school to ask for/ share ideas on costumes for the school play etc.

I agree that the whole area is a bit terrifying.
And at the risk of agreeing with the Tories' "We should have a more neighbourly society" it does tell us something about how isolating our lives can be and I wonder if this really does mean we have a good quality of life for all our relative affluence.

Hello everyone. Guess what, one of the cliquey mums who hasn't spoken to me AT ALL in three weeks, suddenly turned round to me last week and said: Hello Max's Mum"! Then she ignored me. I was gobsmacked. Anyway, she spends all her time either chatting inanely or shouting at her son so I'm not bothered in talking to her!
TLB - I read your message and I suggest that you avoid the obvious groups and try to talk to other single-standing mums or groups of two. Three of us have now built up our own little clique - but we also talk to other mums! (Except the above mentioned one.)

I have to agree with Louisa - it is frightening how easy it is to be 'cliquey' yourself or only to mix with 'people like us' - I have only lived in our village just over a year, but out walking with a neighbour this morning, who has lived here many years, she commented on how many people I seemed to know - my answer was that when I moved here I just made a huge effort to get to know EVERYONE !! Of course, they are not all 'good friends' but I now have a very large circle of people with lots of interests.

I have mentioned this on other threads but if possible, offer to do things, whether it is making cakes, helping at jumble sales, youth club, creche at church ANYTHING !! Yes, I know a lot of it isn't intellectually stimulating but then much of raising children isn't - and you never know who you will meet. If you have something positive to contribute, most people will drop their 'cliqueness' (is that a word?!)

One of my new friends is starting a book club next week which I am really looking forward to joining.

i have been really put off by the general bitchiness and clique like behaviour of these baby playgroups. it's shameful. i am from overseas and have been in UK 3 years now. my son is 9 months old. i have taken him to group after group after group for months now and have made NO friends other than one turkish woman. only other foreign women acknowledge me. british women just look right thru me and it makes me so sad. mainly sad for my son who suffers indirectly. i can honestly say that if tables were turned i would be the one to extend myself and include a new mum. do you believe that this week i actually showed up to a home - a group that had been going on for some time but that agreed to allow me in late - of other mums in the area - an NCT group - and i showed up to the home, rang the door bell many times but no one answered. thought i had the wrong house. checked. came back twenty minutes later. tried again. same thing. rang the hostess later that day who confirmed that i had the right house and kind of giggled on the phone that i had missed the group. talk about feeling paranoid. not exactly a welcome wagon is it. i am so alone here and its awful that people behave this way.

bwhiskey - that's interesting what you say about british women not making you feel welcome. About 4 years ago a Zimbabwean (sp?) family moved to our school and as Chair of the PTA I was introduced and asked to make the mum and kids feel welcome and generally be a point of contact for them. I was more than happy to do this and they are a really nice family. Likewise when a Canadian family moved here I was the general point of contact although they didn't stay very long. When my english pal who lives in the US moved over there literally the night they arrived neighbours were out greeting them and bringing goodies to the house and generally lending a hand and within a week they had invitations to a superbowl party, bbq etc. That woudl never have happened over here...

Bwhiskey. That's awful!

bwhiskey I think you may be right (although depends on the area). I've lived and worked abroad myself and so when I meet people who have moved over here I try to make a point of welcoming them. Mind you a German lady joined our local toddler group (and she was disabled so had double the reason to be ignored in some areas by some people iykwim!) and she was made very welcome and was quickly a member iykwim. Although having said that I went to that group precisely because it WAS welcoming and friendly. I didn't find the toddler groups so welcoming when we lived in London (we're now in Devon).

I had a pretty vile experience first time I went to an NCT meeting as well! My antenatal group became very close friends, but the I found the general meetings very very cliquey. First (and only) time I went no-one spoke to me- except one bloke who was also there for the first time and looking as much of a lemon as me. I did tell people I was there for the first time as well but they just said "oh". It may not be just because you are foreign- it may just be that they aren't very welcoming!

thanks for the replies. i should start my own group and call it something like outcasts anonymous. seriously though if anyone is in the harrow area and had come across the same thing and is feeling shut out please drop us a line. i am pretty much finished with these groups and wouldnt have given them so much time had it not been for wanting so hard to find little friends for my son. it makes me angry that by the time he goes to school he may not know anyone when other kids whose mums were part of the cliques will know one another and the same exclusionary behaviour may take place. ive got to make sure that doesnt happen but am running out of ideas.

while i didnt expect the red carpet to be rolled out when i came here i didnt expect this level of nastiness either. i dont think its directly because im 'foreign.' but i do think its because i am somehow different. birds of a feather flock together. and it never been more clear to me than through living here.

Oh bwhiskey, the unfriendly people you have encountered sound awful and I hope you get a better welcome from other mums soon.

There is a mumsnet meet-up in Watford in July here do you think you could get there? I have met some of the people going in real life and can vouch for their friendliness!

I live near(not in) Harrow and would love to meet up with you but my son if five years old and I work full time so we are not ideal if you want to make friends with people who have children near your son's age. If you are interested in meeting up then e-mail me via contact another talker.

Bwhiskey, don't worry about when he goes to school. The way children relate to each other means any plans their parents might have for who will be friends with go out of the window anyway - he'll be fine.

And he might start making friends earlier, at toddler's group. I found the toddler's groups, when the kids are a bit older (2+) friendlier, for some reason. Maybe that will be your experience?