The right age to start school - I've changed my mind

[emkana]

Coming from Germany, where children start school at the age of six/seven I used to think that four was terribly early for starting school, that it was depriving children of their childhood.

Now dd, who is nearly five, is coming to the end of her reception year, I've changed my mind. I think it's wonderful what she's learned in her time at school. Big words, big concepts, a lot about social interaction, her reading has come on in leaps and bounds, and she has enjoyed every moment of it.

But then again other children might not be as lucky as her...
nevertheless, I feel now that children mostly benefit from school at this age, as long as it is done well. In Germany, on the other hand, Kindergarten is often all about unstructured free play all day every day, then when school starts it's straight into very structured, disciplined learning - a big culture shock! Here, at dd's school, it seems to be done so gradually that they move from lots and lots of play to more and more structured learning, that they hardly notice it at all. And the learning they do still seems to be mainly fun for them.

Dunno who does the artwork, you may be right, it's probably an AG. This is one of those schools that do extra art, as part of their school profile. In Berlin (forgotten where you are?) we have a few sport-betonte, Kunst-betonte and Musik-betonte schools which have that extra emphasis although I don't know how much time is actually spent on the extra art, sport or music.

dd went to 3 kindergartens in all here and they varied a great deal. The second one was utter crap which is why I moved her yet again, one year before she starts school - and thank goodness I did.

Kindergarten Nr 2 - children were often unmsupervised. You could drop in during the morning and find 15 kids alone in a room. One kid cut off a chunk of dd's hair one day when they were alone in the room cutting shapes out of a paper form (preschool work). Could have been her ear.

Kids were forever being hit with branches or biffed off the wooden playcastle in the playground because carers were tidying up the yard, or indoors having coffee or sitting around a table yakking and not watching them. The concept of actually watching the kids and knowing what they were doing seemed totally alien to the carers. I've heard they have had a lot of problems with more vocal parents coming in. Recently I heard a mother had kicked up a huge fuss because older kids had forbidden her dd to eat any breakfast. (The kids are left in a room on their own to eat unsupervised, whilst all carers sit in a seperate room and have their meals undisturbed!)

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but I too used to think 4 was way too early to start school. DS1 has always been the type that you'd think woud hate school, but he started pre-reception 3 weeks ago and has changed so much. He talks about things I didn't know he knew about and seems to be developing into a lovely little boy who actually does most of what I ask him to do .
The year before this he was at playschool for 5 sessions a week (which btw was half an hour longer than he's at school and they learnt to write their names and numbers there whereas at school they get read stories and play all morning). Learning through play seems to work for DS and a lot of his little friends. So I think that 4 isn't too young after all. Eases them into it gently.

TBH I think DS2 (20m) is ready for school now, well I'm ready for him to go!!

My own experience of the UK system, as a foreigner, is that for my ds 4 y was fine to start school. But he goes to a small, friendly school. They seem to get a lot less home work than a lot of other reception children (other thread recently). He also used to go to a nursery, which he hated. As soon as they were 3 y old they were expected to sit down and learn the alphabet etc., In fact it seemed much more like "school" than his school now.
BTW, as a child myself went to a different country for a few months. Although they didn't start school til 7 y, it seemed very relaxed compared to school in my own country.

Frogs, you are spot on there. My niece goes to a German secondary school and sometimes she just "arrives" home at 10.30 because no one turned up to teach her. The school hasn't done Chemistry because the science teacher doesn't like Chemistry and prefers Biology. I found all this really hard to believe, but apparently is true. She goes to Gymnasium but hardly does any subjects - no music, art, pe, chemistry, D and T. She reckons it is very boring in school and wants to come back to England! But I don't see how she can do this because she hasn't covered so many subjects. My sister is in a dilemma at the moment because she isn't happy with this and would like to come back. By the way, they smoke in the playground at her school!!!!!!!!!

I hope no one takes offense at my post because I really love Deutschland. Both my parents are German and it really is my "homeland". I just feel that the schools are not all they are cracked up to be. My sister's experience has defintely made me value our flawed British system.

I think for the majority of children, starting school at 4 works out fine. However there's a sizeable minority who simply are not ready and for them starting at 4 has long term repercussions, effectively putting them off for life. So for society as a whole, in my opinion, I think starting a year later would be better.

Goodness figs! How can they send a schoolgirl home at 10.30?! How can the school know that the children actually go home? They could go anywhere and get into any kind of trouble. Don't schools have the Aufsichtspflicht for schoolchildren during school hours (the obligation to monitor them)?

This problem with teachers not turning up for work and no reliable supply teaching system seems to be a real problem here. Hopefully not at dd's school but I know the neighbouring primary school has a lot of problems with this.

I've spoken to unemployed qualified teachers who can't get any work since it's centrally allotted. One hasn't had a teaching job since qualifying 6 years ago. I asked if he couldn't work as a supply teacher and he told me they don't have that system here. It is something to do with the status of teachers as civil servants here. That's why they can't be employed as temporary, rotating staff. So if the teacher doesn't turn up, no one teaches the class

I don't think it's about what age they start school but what we're teaching them and how we're teaching them! I own a private day nursery and so my daughter was full-time with me from 6 months to school age. She was almost 5 when she started and would have been ready developmentally at 4! Reception - she loved it! It was all play-based and fantastic. She would run into school but in Year 1 - she would cry saying it was boring. They were doing work. They had to sit down and write and be quiet. They had homework and spelling tests (the results of which were for lots of over-ambitious parents to brag about on the school yard). All the boys were being naughty!! They weren't being naughty -they were acting their age. It is abnormal for many children of this age to sit and not move and be quiet for long periods of time. Why? These kids are 6!!! If we spoil their enjoyment of learning at this tender age what hope is there later on. Who was your favourite teacher at school? Why were they your favourite? Did you learn more in that lesson? - WAS IT THE TEACHER WHO MADE IT FUN & INTERESTING BY ANY CHANCE????

I don't know what Aufsichtsflicht is! Sorry, I am in England and have been quite surprised by the experiences of my sister in Germany as I think we have a view here that all is rosy in Europe and everything English must be awful - which is clearly not the case.

Samsmil, my dds certainly didn't have to sit to attention in year 1. They were gradually introduced to sitting at their desk between year 1 and year 2 and, yes, they did have spellings but I think this was for the benefit of the child not the parents. My younger dd is now in year 6, and they still sit on the carpet and have "circle time". I don't really know what you are trying to say. Generally schools are criticised for not teaching enough, are you suggesting that they should just play at school? I think we are quite gentle with our children in the UK - or at least at my dds school.

My concern really is the transition from year 6 to year 7. There are some children still on the reading scheme in year 6 - what happens when they go to secondary? In Germany they can stay back a year, which is hard for the children, but could benefit them in the long run. In the UK we just merrily plod on, regardless of whether the children understand their work or not.