Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Confused by Schools results - how do I understand better??

8 replies

lifeisabowlofcherries · 12/03/2013 18:28

Hello. I am a long time lurker and could really do with help from those who understand our educational system better than me .... Please be gentle with meBlush

My ds (year 6) is going to local secondary school (catchment) in sept - it seems a good all round school, very sporty - this suits ds and most of his friends are going there. But I am trying to understand about their support particularly in maths as he has a mild learning difficulty in this area. They advertise the fact that 81% of their GCSE students get 5 + a-c grades, however on closer scrutiny only 53% get 5+ a-c when maths and English are included. Is this average/normal? What can affect this? What questions do I need to ask? His primary school have been working so hard to increase his confidence and I worry this would be undermined looking at these stats... Thanks

OP posts:
tiggytape · 12/03/2013 19:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

letseatgrandma · 12/03/2013 19:10

Our local comp had 14% who got 5 a-c including maths and English last year so it could be a lot worse! Have you been to look round? Asked questions?

lifeisabowlofcherries · 12/03/2013 21:51

Thanks for replying. The parents I have spoken to all seem to be happy but I just worry that because he struggles and has to work so hard just to achieve "average" performance ie level b/c that moving to a much bigger school means he gets lost in the system and then loses his confidence which we have worked so hard to nurture......

OP posts:
KateShrub · 13/03/2013 00:26

53% is below average.

This number tells you that it's unlikely to be the most academic of schools.

It doesn't make it a bad school, though it might be.

You need to look deeper to find out what's going on.

Here's a school regarded as 'Outstanding':

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=134693

The first thing to look at is 'Cohort information'

Here you can see that the school has 18% 'Low attainers', 58% 'Middle attainers' and 23% 'High attainers'.

This is an average intake - the middle attainers are those who got level 4 KS2 SATs at primary school (most children), the low attainers got Level 3 or below, and the high attainers got level 5 or above.

Basically:

Low attainers are statistically not going to pass 5 good GCSEs. A few will buck the trend, but the overwhelming majority.
Middle attainers should pass, these are solid C or above students, and should pass, but they are not going to get A*s in most cases
High attainers statistically are nailed on for 5 GCSE passes, and a school that is getting in a lot of high attainers has to be spectacularly fucking awful not to look good in the league tables.

Moving down the list, you see over 80% passing 5 good GCSEs or equivalents including English and Maths. This is very high given the intake.

The next stat is 'Percentage achieving A*-C in English and maths GCSEs'. Maths and English GCSE are they key to the whole league table. Basically the weaker candidates, if they pass this, will then be entered for an easy vocational qualification that is essentially impossible to pass and counts as 4 GCSEs.

As you can see every child who passed English and Maths also got 5 good GCSEs inc. maths and English or (supposedly) equivalent.

As you can see, 99% of the middle attainers did this, as did 50% of the low attainers, and 100% of the high attainers.

The EBacc stats show how many students sat for English, maths, sciences, a foreign language, and a humanity. If your child is a 'high attainer', then you are probably going to want them to follow an academic curriculum, and seeing that most of the students do that is a good sign.

The next figures are 'value added'. This supposedly measures whether the school has added value - i.e. did they take in average students and get them A*s (high value added), or did they take in very bright students and get them Cs (low value added).

I'm very cynical about these because it's obvious that this school is extremely adept at targeting its benchmarks, and you can target 'value added' without necessarily adding value IYSWIM.

Nonetheless, the value added figures are extremely high here, and that is a good sign. 1000 is 'average' here, anything substantially below that indicates the school is worse than average, 1025 would be good, and 1050+ ,as here is outstanding. But like I said, take with a pinch or two of salt.

Next table shows the average grade per GCSE. Ignore average grade per qualification, as it includes the vocational qualifications schools use to make up the 5 GCSEs or equivalent. As you can see, low attainers get a D+ average, middle attainers get a B-, and high attainers get an A average. These grades can be usefully compared between schools - it's possible that School A might appear below School B in the league tables based on the % A*-C GCSE figures, but beat it in every category in terms of average GCSE grade.

Next table is another good one, as it shows the extent to which the school does 'equivalent' qualifications rather than GCSEs (average entries per pupil GCSEs only). As you can see here high attainers sit 11 GCSEs, low attainers 6, middle 9.

A school where middle attainers sit few GCSEs would tend to have a culture of underachievement, and I would worry if I saw that.

For instance this school, by comparison is utterly shit:

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=108086

Here you can see that the profile of the cohort is largely identical, and they get in enough bright children at 11 to have several high streams and have them achieve well. But sadly they don't

The data here set alarm bells off all over the place:

45% A*-C inc. English - Maths - this is the headline, and would be enough for parents to avoid the school, but as you scroll down you see failure after failure.

14% of the high attainers don't pass Maths + English (the figure should be 0-1%)
Only 41% of the middle attainers pass maths + English (cf.99% at the outstanding school)
0% of low attainers pass maths + English (cf. 50% at the outstanding school)

Average GCSE grades are crap - B-, D and F cf. A, B- and D+

The children don't appear to be doing any work at all - not only do the 'high attainers' only sit 6.7 GCSEs each, they aren't even making up for it with other qualifications.

A really awful school.

Here's another school, where Nick Clegg has sent his kids to school, and very desirable:

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=137157

This school has an admissions policy designed to exclude all but the brightest kids, but without actually testing them. Here you can see that the school takes in 66% High Attainers, 32% Middle Attainers, 2% Low Attainers.

This means that they can essentially tailor their school to the needs of the brightest, because they don't have any academically children to worry about. If your child is very bright, then the high % of high attainers would be a good sign.

Although this school, the Oratory comes above the first (Mossbourne) in the league tables, and middle class parents would generally prefer Oratory, the stats show that Mossbourne is doing a much better job. Because Oratory is stuffed with pushy middle class parents with bright children they don't need to do much to get 90%+ GCSEs, and you see that whereas 99% of 'middle attainers' pass 5 GCSEs at Mossbourne, only 80% (note: this is still very high), do at Oratory.

In addition, Mossbourne is dealing with far worse social problems, high crime rates locally, over 50% on FSMs in past 6 years compared with less than 10% at the Oratory, but they still make damn sure that every child reaches his potential.

Anyway, with specific reference to 53% vs. 81% this comes down to lots of vocational qualifications, but you'd need to drill down into the data to find the fuller picture.

lifeisabowlofcherries · 13/03/2013 09:42

Thanks Kate, thats great, will spend some time on looking at this today - although not sure where this will take me ...... feeling worried that going on the initial overview they seem to be fine where the high achievers are concerned, but it appears the rest seem to either have to sink or swim.

OP posts:
Xenia · 13/03/2013 11:32

We went for the most academic schools for ours (but we pay fees).

Just to contrast the figures above one daughter's school 2012 "79% of entries were graded A, an increase on last year, and an overall improvement of 10% since 2008. For the sixth year running, over 96% of all results were graded at A or A." This is GCSE.

Our local comp as 14% of children getting 5 decent GCSEs even as low as C grade, never mind 96% A or A*.

Selective entry though so obviously you are not comparing like with like.

lifeisabowlofcherries · 13/03/2013 11:54

I haven't seen these tables before and it does make interesting reading. Prior to 2012 the 5 a-c grades had been increasing year on year and was at 63 % in 2011. It dropped to 53% in 2012 and looking on their website the headmaster alluded to this being due to the goal posts being moved on the English marking last summer - interesting that u mentioned this too tiggytape.

Tbh it's not just the results that concern me - I suppose I just need to feel that they will help him to develop and not just leave him to drift as he is at the bottom end of the middle attainment level ( he loves learning and is completely engaged - it's just he has to work really hard to keep upHmm). He will love the sporty elements of the school - I think I just need to work out what else we can do to keep the momentum that the primary school have achieved...

OP posts:
lljkk · 15/03/2013 17:23

But all this shows is historical group info. It says little about your child's individual future.

Look at the results for your local schools 6 yrs ago, what data you would have used then. And how well those data correlate with most recent results. Around here the comparisons are quite inconsistent.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread