If you can afford private education but remain in the state sector cont.

[happygardening]

Thought I repost the OP although the debate has moved on a little .
It's going to be hard to avoid this becoming another state v private thread, but what I'm interested in is a slightly different take on that debate. It's not "which is better?" but "if you think state school is better even though you could afford private education, then why is that?"

The question is based on the assumptions that the DC in question is/are reasonably bright (so might benefit academically from academically selective education), that the state school is non-selective (as most people don't have access to grammar schools), and that you hope for your DC to go to a good university (to make the £££££ fees worthwhile!)

I've been mulling this over ever since I heard some maths professor from Cambridge talking on the radio about the age-old private v state inequality of Oxbridge admissions. He was all for improving access for state school applicants but said that the simple fact was that for maths, even the best state schools generally teach only to the A-level syllabus, whereas the best private schools take their maths/further maths A-level candidates well beyond the syllabus and so the state school applicants are at a huge disadvantage - they simply don't have the starting level of knowledge required for the course.

This made me wonder: with this sort of unequal playing field, if you have the choice of private education, what reasons might you have not to take it?

Would be interested to hear from those who've made this choice - how it's working out, or if your DC have finished school now, how did it work out? Did they go to good universities/get good jobs, etc? On the other side of things, if you paid for private schooling but now regret it, why?

My DC go to a state school by the way.

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It is not true that it is because of over-recruitment that many med school students don't make it through.

The number of medicine training places is fixed by the NHS not universities, and the universities lose money if they only teach them for a year. So it would not make sense for it them to have this as a policy.

but yellow, medicine is horrendously competitive everywhere, not just ox and camb. Suppose I applied to 3 london schools and oxford, but preferred London for whatever reason and hadn't yet had any other offers when oxford made theirs - it would be crazy to relinquish it. Ox and Camb know that a certain number of applicants will not confirm their offers and over offer accordingly (and if everyone accepted one year they'd probably be slightly over quota). If I was in the position above I'd just assume that I was one of those maybes in that year, not that I was doing someone out of a place. If over time more people do that, then Ox and Camb will adjust their offering policy in the same way that other universities do. Market forces determine the way it works.

creamteas I'm not so sure.

Yes gelo if you don't have your preferred offer when the Oxford or Cambridge offer comes through, then sure. In reality those holding Oxford or Cambridge places for Medicine are unlikely to have to wait long at all for their Imperial offer. And they may well have the UCL or Birmingham or whatever one under their belt. The most competitive candidates for Medicine get offers earlier than the rest on the whole. I happen to think there's an obligation somewhere in all this to firm these very competitive places asap and to allow any unwanted place to float free. Do as you would be done by etc.

At that age though, students may not be sure where their preferences lie and it is a perfectly acceptable right to hold more than one offer and take time to consider. I simply don't see that Ox and Camb have any greater right to an early decision than anywhere else.

Yellow I don't know of any specific evidence nationally, I only know about one med school in detail.

Lots of students did leave after or during the first year, but mostly because they couldn't actually cope with the course, not necessarily academically but the practical life and death bit of being a doctor.

I simply don't see that Ox and Camb have any greater right to an early decision than anywhere else.

They don't, they don't think they don't, the system doesn't think they don't - and in fact the only person who I have ever heard express that opinion is Yellowtip

Medics at Cambridge and Oxford are not a distinct species. How hilarious.

When you apply to your first medic job, you apply med school blind, so there is no benenfit whatsoever in having come from Oxford (who incidentally can't fulfill the clinical years for all their medical students anyway, so they have to go elsewhere).

One of my son's best friends is an Oxford medic and he has just the 3 A levels and one AS level and is a bit of an also ran tbh. My son and a few of his wannabe medic friends didn't apply to Oxford (or Cambridge), but later got brilliant BMAT scores (sufficent for UCL and Imperial offers) and I think in part this was because they actually believed the sort of nonsense Yellowtip seeks to perpetuate. But they are all happy at their respective med schools and doing very well so it doesn't matter.

If you are good enough to read medicine, you are most probably good enough to apply for a place at Oxford or Cambridge. If you are predicted AAA or better and have at lease 6 grades at GCSE, then give it a whirl.

When Oxford say the offer is A*AA, (or whatever it is these days), it really is that.

Yellowtip, as a matter of interest why on earth did your son do 6 A levels in two years? What subjects were they?

LittleFrieda you may need to read a little more carefully. No-one said Oxford and Cambridge medics are a distinct species and no-one is chortling with derision at the Imperial and UCL medics as far as I know. So calm down maybe, it's not that funny. Great that you seek to perpetuate the myth that Oxford medics are also rans. Probably hard to justify on a closer analysis but there you go. I'm also not sure how you get that your son's brilliant BMAT score derived in part from a belief in the nonsense that I seek to perpetuate. I'd love an expansion on that. What nonsense? And why the causal link? All I'm saying is that the plain fact is that standards for entry to Medicine at Oxford and Cambridge are stratospherically high, numbers are tight, those who apply to reject are primadonnas most likely and that they should give those who really want a place on these tedious antiquated courses a decent chance, Goodness me, what a lot of sour grapes.

Bonsoir bearing in mind that four of my DC out of four have got a place, I have no self-serving axe to grind. But I have seen a large number of highly able students rejected/ gutted so happen to think that anyone with no intention of using their place should move over tbh. That's the decent thing to do, no question.

LittleFrieda it included GS but so what (I quite like what they do in GS). And a mix of Science and Humanities but not including Maths. If you prefer that that's five, fine by me/ him I'm sure.

Yellowtip I'm just making the point that when you apply to Oxbridge you have no idea what your BmAt score will be as the results aren't known until AFTER the closing date for medics & oxbridgers.

I think we should be encouraging people to apply.

Yellowtip - You didn't answer my Q about why 6 A levels and what subjects?

I answered your question as near as dammit since I don't see the need to out him, which I nearly have, across my posts. Sciences plus Humanities plus GS - what on earth else do you need to know?. He liked all the subjects he did and didn't much fancy Maths. He's quite broad in his interests. Isn't that a good thing Frieda? He also held down a regular job, was very active at school (Senior Kid etc) and had a good social life too. Is any of that a problem for you?

It's slightly pointless to pursue this but Bonsoir in a sense Oxford and Cambridge do at the very least hope for consideration for others from offerees in that each offer letter comes with a statement along the following lines: 'The final deadline for accepting or declining the offer of a place will be in late April, but it would be helpful if you could let us know as soon as possible if you do intend to decline our offer as we might then be able to offer another candidate a place'. This is across all subjects though, not just Medicine. Some colleges make the point very emphatically in fact and ask for notice within ten or so days. It's merely a request of course, not an order but for those just rejected it matters.

How funny. I would read that sentence as a clear expression of the fact that applicants shouldn't feel any pressure to make a decision earlier than the April deadline. However, if they happened to do so, please let them know...

I don't think the actual colleges deserve any more consideration than south bank poly does. But the other applicants deserve consideration. Applying to reject is a particularly arrogant way to behave I think (and would be equally nasty if done to Durham, imperial etc).

Freida you obviously haven't read the whole thread or the many many other threads devoted to Oxbridge type things. Yellow has consistently expressed the view that anyone with remotely approaching the right grades should give it a go. She has clearly however (and rightly so in my view) become irritated by the small number of people whose kids failed to get in who are now professional Oxbridge bashers. We have the same issue with the school all her kids and one of mine go/went to - people whose kids don't get in suddenly become world experts in how rubbish it is. It gets very boring.

To be fair, I do know non-UK applicants to British universities who apply to the UK, France, Germany or the US in their final year at school to see what they get. So even if they get an Oxbridge offer and confirm it in April, they may later reject it because they got an unconditional offer they preferred in France or Germany or the US.

and/or

The requests are clear requests for consideration for other disappointed candidates Bonsoir. Of course colleges can't apply pressure or be seen to apply pressure and they have to refer to the official deadline, it's incumbent on them. But Oxford and Cambridge have a reasonable expectation that those applying wish to accept and an acute awareness of how many able candidates they have to reject, for want of spaces. I really can't understand your attitude of the university application process being a 'competition'. When you know where you want to go, why hang onto a place? That's not being competitive, that's being pretty small minded and mean. Students are encouraged to think carefully about their choices before they select their four/ five, not bumble into the process in some kind of fog of indecision. Applications to the US can make things a bit messy though, because of the late notification dates.

Cross posted with Mordion. Quite right.

Yellowtip - You said before he didn't sit GS and now you say he did. How confusing.

I've at no point said he didn't sit GS since he did and therefore I wouldn't say he didn't . For that reason you won't be able to direct me to the offending post :)

Mordion - Yellowtip says the standard is "stratospherically high". It isn't versus any other med school in the UK.

And yy to what Bonsoir says. The market for education is increasingly global and Oxbridge are not always top pick.

My son (currently lower sixth) will apply to Trinity College, Dublin, three US universities for early decision and the normal five in the UK via UCAS. I think this sort of selection is becoming more and more common.

?Yellowtip, as a matter of interest why on earth did your son do 6 A levels in two years? What subjects were they??

In 3 [three] years, LittleFrieda, not 2, as you have been hoodwinked to believe.

It?s easy enough for everyone else many to do 4 or 5 A-Levels in two years and score straight As and so I don?t know what the fuss? all about in scoring so-called 6A with no Maths over 3 years. But what I do know is there are people who?d collect A*s like a boy scout collects badges.

Yellowtip - I must have misunderstood.

?Yellowtip - You didn't answer my Q about why 6 A levels and what subjects??

I find it hilarious for a parent to come online to tell the world about their child?s string of A*s and when challenged, goes all pear-shaped and defensive and asks is any of that a problem for you?

Well, if it?s not our ?problem? then why bother telling us?