If you can afford private education but remain in the state sector cont.

[happygardening]

Thought I repost the OP although the debate has moved on a little .
It's going to be hard to avoid this becoming another state v private thread, but what I'm interested in is a slightly different take on that debate. It's not "which is better?" but "if you think state school is better even though you could afford private education, then why is that?"

The question is based on the assumptions that the DC in question is/are reasonably bright (so might benefit academically from academically selective education), that the state school is non-selective (as most people don't have access to grammar schools), and that you hope for your DC to go to a good university (to make the £££££ fees worthwhile!)

I've been mulling this over ever since I heard some maths professor from Cambridge talking on the radio about the age-old private v state inequality of Oxbridge admissions. He was all for improving access for state school applicants but said that the simple fact was that for maths, even the best state schools generally teach only to the A-level syllabus, whereas the best private schools take their maths/further maths A-level candidates well beyond the syllabus and so the state school applicants are at a huge disadvantage - they simply don't have the starting level of knowledge required for the course.

This made me wonder: with this sort of unequal playing field, if you have the choice of private education, what reasons might you have not to take it?

Would be interested to hear from those who've made this choice - how it's working out, or if your DC have finished school now, how did it work out? Did they go to good universities/get good jobs, etc? On the other side of things, if you paid for private schooling but now regret it, why?

My DC go to a state school by the way.

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The big issue is the very patchy understanding among teachers about what is the best course of action for bilingual children (whether early or late bilinguals). Most teachers invent their advice, with little or no experience, training or understanding.

happygardening, I like your idea about child benefit. If only.

abolishing independent schools or for that matter grammar schools is not going to make an iota of difference to those living below the poverty line.

Well, yes and no. I don't want to sound like some starry-eyed, patronising do-gooder, but when more privileged families send their kids to state schools, state schools become better for everyone.

"when more privileged families send their kids to state schools, state schools become better for everyone"

Were it so simple.

Chandon, I think that children of immigrant families enrich schools in all sorts of different ways. That's why I'm happy that my DC are in a school that is very culturally/ethnically mixed instead of in a more homogeneous one.

It's a shame that your school didn't manage to give your DC the support they needed.

bahana, it's not just MN, I swear. I could introduce you to a whole raft of people who have made the choice you describe. They do it for lots of different reasons. I have lots of friends who went to private schools themselves and weren't happy there, so they wanted to do something different for their kids. Also, not all private schools are good. Every year I see uni applications from candidates who have been poorly taught at private schools. The poor quality of the teaching is evident from the marked schoolwork that they submit. And I always think, those poor parents, paying so much money for such mediocre teaching.

Bonsoir, my DH and I volunteer a lot of time and resources to help out in our DC's school, and other parents do the same. Parents banded together to improve the school; partly thanks to our efforts, the school got a new headteacher and is going from strength to strength. We HAVE made a positive difference in the school, not just for our own children but for all the children. Of course any parents anywhere can make a difference to their school, but it is often easier for the privileged ones to do so, because we are noisy and demanding and have a sense of entitlement.

Chandon And why abolish the successful schools ( grammars and private)?!

You have answered your own question:

So many tories send their kids private, they do not care what happens to the rest.

Its not going to happen, but if grammars and indies were abolished, there would so much more interest amongst Tories (and everyone else) in making sure that the normal "comps" have smaller classes, better discipline (not accepting that that is a problem, but it is perceived to be), more inspirational teachers (ditto), and so on, that the "lowest common denominator" would rise .....

I am interested in making comps better with smaller class sizes etc as I'd love to save myself 30 grand a year but unfortunately the power of my mind is not that strong and I don't really know how else I can manage it, sorry.

Chipping away can definitely help. There are some very useful programmes which Oxford students join to tutor children of immigrants in the poorer parts of town.

"but when more privileged families send their kids to state schools, state schools become better for everyone."
As I've repeatedly said the solution to attracting the middle classes who are currently paying is to improve state ed to such an extent they don't feel a need to pay. But there will always be a minority who wont move to the state sector perhaps some of those more than anyone else many feel should send their DC's to state ed. We pay for full boarding which has a very significant impact on our finances despite having a "top performing academy" on our door step, one of the countries top and most sought after grammar nearish by and a cheaper independent day school within driving distance. We do this becasue we believe what is offered at my DS's school cannot be found in any of the above. If hypothetically independent ed was abolished my DSs school would move abroad they already have links with other academic centres of excellence around the world and I would be the first one in the queue booking a plane ticket.

"there would so much more interest amongst Tories (and everyone else) in making sure that the normal "comps" have smaller classes, better discipline (not accepting that that is a problem, but it is perceived to be), more inspirational teachers (ditto), and so on, that the "lowest common denominator" would rise ....."
Ohdear where is the money going to come from? According to the accounts of our local academy they have just over £6000 PA for each child. At top boarding schools they have 333 000 pa for each child. Ok the infra structure is considerably more expensive but remember as parents we pay for every book, pen and piece of paper. How are you going to generate this money? Higher taxes as in Norway where all children go to the state schools? Could be unpopular in the house owning/consumer obsessed society because lets face it we're not talking another penny on income tax. Take the money away from other things pointless wars would be a good one but despite mass protests we still went to war and may go again in the near future. Perhaps remove it from other areas, where? Health? I think not. Benefits thus penalising those at the bottom further? The environment maybe? The police? Foreign aid?

I don't want to be bogus marfisa. Only my father was an immigrant; my mother was a Scot (which I don't think would count).

I really don't want to make this about grammar schools, but bearing in mind that most people posting on here probably don't have recent first hand experience of them, it's important to remember that if you compare areas with grammar and high schools with similar areas that have comprehensives there is very little difference in the results. The kids who lose out in the selective system are the lower achievers, who do less well in high schools than in comprehensives.

Bahana, I know lots who do this. I do it, one of my chikdren recently went to a special measures school. I got on the board of govs and have watched it transform under a good head.

We supplement sports and music privately but wouldn't ever educate privately as a whole. Some friends do but most don't and lots could.

Really? I find that depressing as there is no doubt in my mind that a good private school is head and shoulders above a good state school, especially one in special measures. I'm glad it worked out for you though but as I say , I know noone in real life who would dream of sending their chidlren to a state comp in special measures if they could genuinely afford private school.

Bahana I know you're reading this on MN, but I promise I'm a RL person too And I choose to send my children to state primary, rather than private, and have got involved, become a Governor, invested time etc. I'm not the only one, either.

Marfisa Are you my twin?! Although I grew up in Oxford, but no longer live there...

Oh I didnt mean primary . Even I do that. State primaries are fine until about year 5 but even then you can supplement with extra sport etc. It's at secondary level I can't understand.

happy I did start by saying "its not going to happen" - for all your reasons and more.

Bahana, it seems my friends are rather more diverse than yours ... one of the benefits of a comprehensive education:)

Yes very probably Buttery, although I don't make judgements about people I don't know - almost certainly the result of a fantastic private school education and very liberal and clever parents.

Yes Helponeanother, I agree with the social aspect and no commute which is why I said it depends on your local situation, we are fortunate to have a very good girl's private school a 15 minute drive away which is 50/50 day and boarding so my day girls don't feel left out of school life.

Am sure they all did a wonderful job although there is, I think, plenty of judgment when you are depressed upon finding parents who choose state over private when it's an affordable option.

Tbh it would never occur to me private education is the automatic choice of the wealthy. On my road, where most could afford the option about half of the families educate privately, in one case for SEN.

I largely believe that liberal intelligent parents are more predictive of their children's attainment than school choice.

There is no single solution which is why it is best to have a wide variety of schools available.

happy I did start by saying "its not going to happen" - for all your reasons and more
Ohdear Believe it or not I'm not anti good state ed! My question about how we can finance it better ed and attract MC parents and the benefits that many assume they will bring (bit patronising on the WC's but never mind) is genuine and asked because I don't know the answer and am interested in peoples ideas.