If you can afford private education but remain in the state sector cont.

[happygardening]

Thought I repost the OP although the debate has moved on a little .
It's going to be hard to avoid this becoming another state v private thread, but what I'm interested in is a slightly different take on that debate. It's not "which is better?" but "if you think state school is better even though you could afford private education, then why is that?"

The question is based on the assumptions that the DC in question is/are reasonably bright (so might benefit academically from academically selective education), that the state school is non-selective (as most people don't have access to grammar schools), and that you hope for your DC to go to a good university (to make the £££££ fees worthwhile!)

I've been mulling this over ever since I heard some maths professor from Cambridge talking on the radio about the age-old private v state inequality of Oxbridge admissions. He was all for improving access for state school applicants but said that the simple fact was that for maths, even the best state schools generally teach only to the A-level syllabus, whereas the best private schools take their maths/further maths A-level candidates well beyond the syllabus and so the state school applicants are at a huge disadvantage - they simply don't have the starting level of knowledge required for the course.

This made me wonder: with this sort of unequal playing field, if you have the choice of private education, what reasons might you have not to take it?

Would be interested to hear from those who've made this choice - how it's working out, or if your DC have finished school now, how did it work out? Did they go to good universities/get good jobs, etc? On the other side of things, if you paid for private schooling but now regret it, why?

My DC go to a state school by the way.

.

Tasmania - you talk about the French and Germans managing to get into Oxford and Cambridge as though they are doing it in vast numbers. I think you'll find an awful lot more English people have the nouse to apply to these universities than do the French and Germans...

I mean... seriously... judging by all this... thank God I never decided to be a teacher. I'm fine motivating people and so forth. But I always thought that was an added bonus NOT something that's expected.

And I seriously hope my DCs will be like my cousins' kids. One of them is self-motivated to the point where - aged 10 - he only told his parents he's been elected school president after a huge election campaign that lasted over two weeks. My British DH found that a little scary...

Rabbit Repeat that please? Of course, there will be more British A-level students applying to British unis. It's in their own country, for goodness sake. What I am saying is that over there, you pretty much apply to uni on your own. Whether it is in the UK, France or Germany, it does not matter (yes, those other countries have unis all of their own - even posh ones). The weird thing is that judging by this forum British students need masses more help to apply to uni in their OWN country than the few people abroad who decide to come here.

How many British A-level students are applying to French and German unis? And doing so on their own?

I have quite a bit of experience in getting teachers to write UCAS references. Some of them are - they think that it is their prerogative to write exactly what they want, even if that means only pointing out a candidate's weaknesses (have seen this for French candidates who have gone on to achieve > 16/20 in the bac). As for commenting on a candidate's personal qualities, for many French teachers that is quite out of order.

French teachers

Tasmania - that's not a fair comparison, at least not for France, because the French bac is mostly a requirement for entrance to French HE plus what loon would choose French HE if it could be avoided.

Tasmania - I was merely laughing at your apparent suggestion that the fact that a tiny number of French and German people apply to Oxford and Cambridge each year that this is evidence that they are more proactive than their English counterparts. I also can't help laughing at your suggestion that English students get any help with their applications, given that people are on here complaining that whilst private school applicants get lots of help and advice, this is not in general on offer to state school applicants and possibly that is a contributing factor to more privately educated students getting places at the universities they have (on the advice of their teachers) selected. So in actuality, the position of state educated English students is not so very different from the position of state educated German or French students - ie they are in general on their own... and plenty very successfully do get in on their own, funnily enough, just as a tiny number of French and German students do.

Bonsoir - I think you can apply for France from here... it's normally something to do with A-levels being the Frech Bacc equivalent. Same thing in Germany. Most countries, in fact... where you recognise high school degrees across several countries. Because I don't have British A-Levels. Would have done a lot better if I could have concentrated on 3-5 subjects alone. Instead, I still had to do something like 11 subjects at the end which includes PE because unless there were health reasons, that formed part of your final grade. I was a nerd, so didn't like that at all!

Let me fish something out...

Bonsoir - I was having a very interesting discussion with a French in-law the other day about the cultural differences between the English and French, a very strong one being the culture in France to pick people up on their weaknesses and to forget to credit them for their strengths.

Tasmania - you can apply, but the chances are that your dossier will be thrown out as not meeting minimum requirements. I know quite a lot about this issue.

One to complain to the EU about, then, Bonsoir...

The children at the EU institutions own schools, European Schools, encounter this problem with the European Baccalaureate!

The English would be better EU citizens if they learned to complain less and flout more.

Like the French.

Hmm... flouting rather than complaining has got France where it is today.

Rabbits - Maybe because a lot of French and Germans actually study in France and Germany... where (as said) they apply mostly on their own.

If I was French, for example, and wanted to study Maths, I may actually stay in France because they are quite known for teaching sciences particularly well, I'm told. Bonsoir - DH has a PhD in a hard science subject, and is always slightly intimidated by his French counterparts. He seems to think they are really, really good (saying that a lot of those at Masters level are beyond what he would expect over here). Are there some good grand ecoles that do sciences??? Sorry - not familiar with French unit!!

Vive la France!

^^ aargh... unis.

And a lot of English actually study in England and (as said) apply mostly on their own...

Tasmania - Engineering and all its related components are probably stronger at Masters level in France than in the UK. Engineering is very prestigious and the most talented pupils at maths and physics go to the engineering grandes écoles. So, yes, they are probably both brainier and better trained than their UK equivalents.

Bonsoir - Not necessarily true... forgot to add this, but my stepsister did her equivalent of A-levels in Germany, but she actually went to uni in France. DSo she didn't have the French Bacc.

My other stepsister also did a PhD in France as well. Never got as fluent as they were in French (only myself to blame though) so came to England instead.

Perhaps, Tasmania, but anecdote is not data and I do have data on this issue (not gleaned off the internet however - insider info).

Although since we've had a discussion on this thread about the Grande Ecoles being stuffed full of the children of teachers and academics, I think "applying on your own" and entirely on your own merit without any outside help is a concept that is actually stretched a bit thin in France, too...

Bonsoir - yes, that's sort of what my DH indicated. He normally says if you need talented Maths/Physics/Engineering people, you look at those who got their degrees from the French Grand Ecoles first, then MIT, and then the top British unis. And a lot of the more quantitative people I've worked with were French - just never thought about it.

Bonsoir So how did my sister get accepted for her first degree there? I do know she had a French boyfriend (reason for applying there in the first place - against my dad's wishes ), but surely that shouldn't help her gaining admission