DH really wants to teach but not sure if we can ever afford it - help with realistic salary expectation

[Flycat]

Understand teaching is not about the salary, but at the end of the day one has to consider the cash. We could probably manage the getting qualified year, either as PGCE or one of the school routes, the problem is the years of low initial pay. DH has PhD and 14 years of Central Gov Civ Serv experience at a reasonably high level - but not a seriously high flyer. It appears newly qualified out of London salary is about 21K. What would be a realistic expectation of increase over 10 years post qualification? He is about 40 and would be looking at primary with no special payments due to maths or languages - or possibly secondary RE. (I know this ignores all the problems of getting a training/course place, getting a job etc, but we need first to assess the practicality of dropping from a salary which is enough for us to lose most of our Child Benefit).

If your DH has relevant experience, either in the subject or skills-related, he should be able to put a case to the governors to start higher up the payscale. DH started at point 3 because he argued a convincing case, but point 2 is more usual.

The first year will be the hardest, but in the second year he could try and get some responsibility and get a TLR, which is a bit more money. This could be for being responsible for enriching the curriculum, for example

But your DH has to absolutely be rewarded by the job. My DH took a 50% pay cut to teach and is already jaded after 3 years and thinking of leaving the profession. He worked extremely hard to get into teaching and is a brilliant teacher and thought he'd gone into it with realistic expectations. But it needs more than that to work for a comparatively shit salary and the relentless pressure.

I'm sure you know that it's really hard to get a primary teaching position, but I don't know about RE in secondary. DH is in science.

Secondary RE, assuming that he is good at it and committed etc etc, is usually taught in small departments and he could well be looking at becoming head of department within 3-4 years. This is usually on TLR2 (about 6k on top of main scale). Alternatively, he could go for head of year/head of key stage jobs, which tend to be on TLR 1, so about 10k on top of main scale. The next step after either of these is assistant head, which is on the leadership spine and comes to about 48k. I would expect a decent teacher/manager to be able to reach assistant head within 10 years if he were really focused and ambitious, although there is a lot of competition for these posts.

The key thing is to enjoy and be good at the actual teaching, though, as none of the promotion will come without that. Main scale teachers within 10 years can reach UPS2, which is quite reasonable money.

You can find the teachers' pay scales on the NUT website. Here's a link, but if you are on your phone it will be quite small writing. www.teachers.org.uk/files/pay-scales-2012-for-websites-v2-with-logo.doc

Chicaguapa, thanks, and how disappointing for your dh. That's the thing, you never really, really can know what it's going to be like can you, despite all the preparation in the world?
Notnow, yes, we are skating over the 'being any good at the actual teaching' bit for the moment! This is just a financial exercise, could he ever seriously consider it given the massive pay cut. It's just such a huge jump (but not so much that we have years of Investment Banker massive whopper type salary to fall back on!).

Can he teach English? Better money in English, Maths and Science because the departments are bigger. Head of English is about £48k.

If he wanted to do management in school he'll be able to earn more money, however, this means less teaching and more managing of teachers. Notoriously difficult and rarely worth the extra money.

The pay scales are all on the union websites but the chances of arguing your way up the pay scale for a position which had many applicants (like primary and RE) is unlikely. Budgets are too tight.

I've been teaching for five years and have responsibility and still not over 30k. And I'm London fringe.

There's (or was) a program for people to go into teaching at a higher level and be mentored & fast tracked to Head in 5 years. They matched your previous salary. It was in certain areas only and you had to work in a challenging school. I expect the current government have scrapped it but I think I read about something similar recently.

DH and I have both been teaching 10 years. I'm in primary state sector he's in secondary independent. We are both SMT.

I earn £40k (fte) he earns £60k.

The path you choose through 'Education' can make quite a big difference to what you earn! If the cash counts he should think carefully about where he works.

We are both 'junior' SMT btw and DH expects to push his salary up by £10k+ when he moves to a more senior SMT role in the next 5 years or so. I on the other hand, only expect to be on £5k more, if that, in 5 years time.

The other thing is, neither of us actually teach. If your DH is passionate about staying in the classroom he may find there is a ceiling salary to that.

I agree about needing a passion for the job and education of young people as a whole to survive in teaching.
In terms of salary, at the moment we have a Main Pay Scale and then additions for responsibilities but different schools in different local authorites will pay differently for different jobs. I teach in Cheshire so we get very little central Gov't money and we aren't an academy so our SLT earn about 10k a year less than the schools in the neighbouring authoriity - and of course Academies can pretty much do what they want.

Gove wants to get rid of any automatic progression through the pay scale with experience and make it totally linked to performance criteria. I'll stick with the (motivated, hard working, bright) top sets please Mr Gove

Get your dh to see if he can go into a variety of different schools to observe the job in action as it's more aboutt he job than the money

I agree with Inclusionist that if your dh wants to actually teach then he will earn less. My dh chose to stay as HoD in a really big school as when he did temporary SLT roles (maternity etc) he had to drop teaching time which, as a teacher is what he really loves doing.

Difficult choices.

Is he sure he really wants to teach? Most people are trying to get out, not in!
If he's thinking primary, is he heading for the top or wanting to teach? There's a lot of vacancies for heads/deputies at both primary and secondary but he should ask himself why that is. It also means less/no teaching, so perhaps not what he wants if he's going in to it for the teaching.

could be apply to teach in a private school? He won't automatically need to have a qualification, although they'd probably expect a certain amount of experience with young people through voluntary work or similar. At least that way he could discover whether his heart is really in it before committing to training and low starting salary.

(I'm not suggesting anyone can walk into work in the private education sector, but if he has relevant experience and a real passion for his subject and for teaching he might get a toe in the door.)

Coming at this from the angle of being an ex-civil servant, could your DH take a 3-5 year career break to try teaching then if it doesn't work out, he could go back to his old department? Plus you would have the relative security of the higher salary coming back in a few years?

Thank you all. We are, naturally, aware of the more responsibility/more money equals less teaching equation and there is no nice answer to that one. And I reiterate that we know that it isn't about the money and accept that earning less is part of it.

NewFerry, I think, although may be wrong, that career breaks are a thing of the past for fairly ordinary mortals nowadays - certainly after sacking 25% of colleagues last year.

Those who have mentioned Independent schools, that's interesting and we have thought vaguely about it. He needs to think if working in that environment would provide what he's looking for. He is Oxbridge educated and has been coaching a sport primarily taught in private schools for several years so that might possibly help? We have no direct experience in that world.

A good option for your DH might be prep schools. It would be younger children but he would still have the oportunity to teach his subject (for which the PhD might help him secure a job). If he picked a sporty prep school the sports coaching experience would definitely count in his favour.

Management jobs /higher salaries are very dependent on the geographical area on where you work . TeacHing is a very challenging and despite media inference, is not highly paid. I want to spit every time that ridiculous advert comes on the tv inferring that you get a management role after about 2weeks of
Teaching. Teaching is a hideous job , however from what I can see of dh-he's the teacher it is also exeptionally rewarding. He works very hard, preps well , outstanding. Lessons , has only just reached threshold and oop north. There area lot less opportunities for progression. He also changed career at 36 from a job that was double what he earn snow. You cut your cloth, and it has worked out amazingly well now we have children.

My dh just retrained. He also has phd and relevant experience and was offered point 3 on the scale straight away. As an independent they also offer a little extra on top. This combined means he will be on 30k for his 2nd year of teaching. He is also likely to get a tlr point so maybe another 6k. This isn't that common but I think if you have a lot of extras like your dh independents will recognise it and pay well and encourage progression. We know a number of state school equivalent teachers in good schools with little staff movement who are stuck on basic pay as there is no room/ encouragement to take on extra responsibilities that actually pay.

Completely agree with helps post. Particularly now, when the gift. Is changing the goal posts with education to, it will be very difficult to negotiate pay scale uplifts etc.
indie may well be the way to go, although you may need to ensure you get your 1st year out of the way first.

Depending on what kind of independent school it is, bear in mind that the teaching hours may be a fair bit longer than you'd have in the state sector. Obviously particularly if boarding involved, but for day schools too I think. For example, my dh teaches on a Saturday morning then takes the kids to a sports match Saturday afternoon (lasting til the evening of cricket and away an hour's drive away).

But then, longer holidays, so that might compensate nicely if you /the dcs will see him lots in those weeks.

He needs to think if working in that environment would provide what he's looking for.

DH went into teaching for the usual reason for late entrants to teaching of 'wanting to make a difference' and started off at a challenging school. He found it incredibly rewarding, but struggled with the daily battles against bad behaviour and the pressure of being measured against progress made by pupils with no inclination or parental support. So after 2 years moved to an outstanding school in a middle class area and he hates it even more as he sees a lot more lack of respect and doesn't get the same level of reward.

Just bear in mind if your DH has a similar outlook and goes down the indie route for the money.

I am similar to your DH but probably much older. Had really high flying corporate job pre kids (was 41 when had dd) and after I had my dd sort of floundered. Couldn't do the long days/nights away needed any more (I know some do but I couldn't). Fiddled around freelancing for several years, then ran my own consultancy firm for a while. Eventually ended up pretty much full time training consultant in my sector.

2009 took PGCE (Post compulsory sector) for personal development and LOVED the education bit. This was just before the rules changed about which qualifications allowed you to teach in schools. I worked unqualified in 2 different schools as a teacher of English (my first degree) and as soon as the rules changed switched to qualified teacher status and was paid as qualified. But I am now on £23,500! I was offered acting Head of Dept when current post holder was on mat leave but it would have been with just basic TLR (so around £1200 extra). Also offered perm Head of Key Stage on similar amount of extra. I am in very small Church School though which really is strapped for cash. I love what I do and luckily the amount I earn is just about doable for us. It isn't much but it is regular and the bonus for me is early home times and long holidays which balances the evenings I spend on prep and marking etc.

BUT I think that men still do better in schools in terms of promotions (we had Head of Dept who was 26 and on much more money than me - do the managers really think we don't talk to each other??) and he recently got a head of dept at huge school on a lot more. I think that men also still seem to get more Headteacher posts in primary/lower schools.

He could consider private sector or academies where they are not tied by national pay rates.

The way into teaching is changing but those people I know who did GTP or schools based training seemed to me to be better prepared for classroom management than me! And had a great support network.

I would suggest he tries to get some school experience and see what he thinks. It is a great job and I think those who go into it as a second career seem happier than those who go straight in (huge generalisation I know...)

ohfunnyhoneyface, have you checked the website linked to above to make sure you're on the right point on the pay scale? I'm also in my fifth year, with a TLR (the lowest one you can get), not London or fringe, and I've been on over £30,000 since last year. Admittedly, I started on M2, but still - I would be making sure you're being paid the right amount.

OP, it sounds as if your DH would do really well at an independent or prep school - schools really value extra-curricular contributions. It sounds like he would have a good chance of starting further up the scale as well. What is good about teaching is the fact that regardless of promotions or responsibility, which would automatically be more money on top, you do automatically move up the scale each year, which is roughly an extra £2 grand a year. Of course, this will no longer be the case if above has his way...

I am 'just a teacher', no responsibilities. 7 years in, I have reached UPS1 which is 37k

I am a HOD (TLR1f), UPS2 and earn I think about £46k. That's not a bad whack for non-SLT. I got to my TLR in 6 years of teaching (with a 5 year sabbatical in the middle when I was a SAHM and did another degree).

However, mine is a core subject, so the TLR is big. I teach in a challenging school and while I have loved it, before Christmas I really was ill from the stress of it.

The plus of working in a challenging school is that as well as fulfilling the more ideological "making a difference" aspirations, there is generally more opportunity for progression (if you can hack it!). The minus is that the challenges of management are very significant. I am starting to wonder how much I have left in me at this level, in this school.