If you can afford private education but remain in the state sector...

[TheseJeansHaveShrunk]

It's going to be hard to avoid this becoming another state v private thread, but what I'm interested in is a slightly different take on that debate. It's not "which is better?" but "if you think state school is better even though you could afford private education, then why is that?"

The question is based on the assumptions that the DC in question is/are reasonably bright (so might benefit academically from academically selective education), that the state school is non-selective (as most people don't have access to grammar schools), and that you hope for your DC to go to a good university (to make the £££££ fees worthwhile!)

I've been mulling this over ever since I heard some maths professor from Cambridge talking on the radio about the age-old private v state inequality of Oxbridge admissions. He was all for improving access for state school applicants but said that the simple fact was that for maths, even the best state schools generally teach only to the A-level syllabus, whereas the best private schools take their maths/further maths A-level candidates well beyond the syllabus and so the state school applicants are at a huge disadvantage - they simply don't have the starting level of knowledge required for the course.

This made me wonder: with this sort of unequal playing field, if you have the choice of private education, what reasons might you have not to take it?

Would be interested to hear from those who've made this choice - how it's working out, or if your DC have finished school now, how did it work out? Did they go to good universities/get good jobs, etc? On the other side of things, if you paid for private schooling but now regret it, why?

My DC go to a state school by the way.

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Where did I dismiss anything as mundane or boring, MordionAgenos? I think you have completely misunderstood something!

Bonsoir - your point refers to students with French qualifications. As creamteas said upthread, the personal statement can be useful for non standard applications, which would apply for your students.

Years ago, I used to work in University Admissions and in that university we had to make a case to the Senate to admit a student with non-standard qualifications, so something in the personal statement about why this person wanted to study in the UK and our course in particular was helpful information in making the case.

What makes you assume that the same advice is valid for UK students with GCSEs/A levels which UK universities do understand?

"Prestigious yet little known by the UK academic community (which is multi national, rather than Anglo-centric)? That's a surprising combination."

Because very few candidates take it (very difficult).

bonsoir what is the qualification? I have taught and studied in France and have a genuine interest

I don't want to out myself.

Tbh Bonsoir this very difficult and prestigious yet little known French qualification which requires hours and hours of personal statement agony sounds far more trouble than it's worth.

I'm very glad my DC have remained mainstream. There's a lot to be said for mainstream :)

I doubt you would think that if you lived here, Yellowtip, given your particular propensity for fabulous state education

I'd like to know too MrsS. My father was educated in the same sort of Parisien school and slotted into the English system pretty easily. I think he found the English system more rigorous, not less.

Interesting about PS mine aren't at that stage yet but certainly the children i work for in both selective and non selective schools state and private seem to think the PS is very important and certainly are agonising over it for hours and I think would be sceptical if they were told its not worth much.
As a mature student who thankfully hasn't climbed Mount K and sadly has not had an opportunity to undertake genuine aid work in a developing country I was accepted on my course without even possessing an O level in the subject becasue the tutors genuinely felt my life skills made up for my lack of relevant qualifications. I had already extensively studied at undergraduate level in the past so they didn't doubt my ability. They frequently commented on the fact that not only did I come second in the yr but worked 30 hours a week looked after my family including a whole pile of ageing decaying relatives had a virtually 100% attendance rate despite living 25 miles away but also a wide knowledge base from many other areas to draw upon but sadly no extra curricular activities and no instrument to grade 8!! Surely the whole point of writing a personal statement is to show a university what you can offer. I accept that being a mature student makes your application different but surely universities want to see that the students they offer the places too will be the right ones for the individual courses especially now everyone has A's so the PS should be important.

My DS applied to Durham, Bristol, Exeter etc to read Politics. He was only rejected by Bristol - the rejection was based on his PS. To Bristol's credit they wrote and said (in effect) : "Your application is in many ways as strong as most we have accepted but we feel that your stated reasons for wanting to read Politics would be better served by courses at other prestigious universities". DS was OK with this, as was I.

grovel - interesting, and if you read The Student Room there are 100s of examples of university rejection letters referring to an omission or failure to demonstrate interest/commitment in the PS.

I think the commitment thing is important but how the hell do you measure it and write about it especially at 18 yrs old. Its easy for an ageing old dinosaur like myself to demonstrate commitment. This is of course why mature students are so popular but I was the first my university has ever had reading my chosen subject its not a common choice for mature students.

Happy Most admissions tutors recognise that the quality of the PS does not tell you much about the academic potential or in many cases the applicant. They vary enormously often in line with education provider. Applicants from FE often only write a few sentences whilst other (especially from private or grammar schools) inevitably fill the space with their achievements.

And, contrary to the world as defined by MN, most students do not get As. I don't have the figures to hand but I think last year it was just over 25%.....

Grovel of course that is what they said. It is an easy way to let people down, and one which can't be challenged!

It is the same as telling all the candidates who didn't get the job they came a close second......

"with their achievements" or with insights on what they have done?

I have read many, many PSs and good applicants from decent schools write reflective pieces, not laundry lists of medals.

Gosh, and so university admissions departments discredit the PS still further...

I can see that academic potential are difficult to quantify on a PS. Interestingly one of the children I work with is at an FE college the other month was smiling becasue he'd just finished his PS that he'd spent hours worrying over maybe I should have told him just to write a few lines and not get in such a sweat about it!!
If you information is correct ( and Im assuming it is) why do so few of the schools I work with both state and independent seem to not know this. It would certainly make may children's and teachers lives easier often at a time when children are worrying about their up and coming exams etc. and I suppose they could dump some of those music lessons and extra curricular activities.

creamteas - you seem extremely confused about the value you place on the PS. May I quote you from another thread?

Many sociology depts have lower entry standards as we have a political commitment to widening participation and recognise that A level grades are often an outcome of social class status and are also poor predictors of ability in the subject. At my institution, we have actively resisted entry grade inflation as that means we can choose from a bigger range of students, using their personal statement to gauge interest in the subject.

creamteas, you may be right but, academically, my DS had all As at A Level (pre A) and all all A/A at GCSE. It would seem sensible that Bristol, with loads of such applications, would use the PS to differentiate. Rather than use the personal guff (yes, my DS had a Grade 8 and all sorts of other sporting achievements etc) they sensibly used the "motivation" part of the PS. My DS had focussed on political systems - they are more into political theory (or whatever).

OK, I tried to resist but I can't

Happygardening, I'm dying to know what subject you've chosen to study!!

'So it would be rather odd if anything but a small minority of heirs and heiresses were spending their hard-earned cash to purchase something that is not forward-thinking and going to prepare their children in an optimal way for the future.'

Oh, Bonsoir, you might make this assumption but (which is your wont in this case and throughout the thread) but 'rather odd' is exactly what British culture is.

Parents pay through the nose at Eton precisely for tradition: ridiculously old-fashioned uniform, Latin and Greek, sportsmanship, hymns and so on.

Walking into a private school can sometimes be like walking into a previous century: not just uniforms but the environment and the teacher teaching from the front with the children lined up in rows sometimes with old fashioned desks and ink pens.

Also, re PSes: times must have changed. My Dad had a stint as Admissions Tutor at his Oxford college, and he read PSes. Definitely.

Ah, yes! Just look at the innovation here www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2096575/What-picture-Prince-Williams-Eton-days-tells-modern-Britain.html

Do you know many Eton parents, fivecandles? I know a lot (including in my family), and they most certainly are not paying for "tradition". They may have been a generation ago - not now.

What they are paying for is participation in (or entrance too - less likely) The Establishment. But that is not the same thing as a traditional education.

And I've been round and inside quite a few private schools in Kent in recent times - both prep and secondary - and they are mostly lovely, bright, modern places with lots of IT. You should try it fivecandles - most instructive!