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SEN exclusion query

17 replies

fightingtheschool · 16/12/2012 21:11

Ds has complex SEN (does have a dx) and a statement of SEN. School have admitted that they can't meet his needs, been threatening to permanently exclude for ages and have finally done so. He is extremely anxious which makes his behaviour worse and school are fully aware of this. Due to his condition,his outbursts when anxious are classed as 'panic attacks'.
During an incident,where staff did not deal with him as they should, he tried to grab a book from TA who was grasping it really tightly and refusing to let him have it. She stated that he hurt her arm. In the same incident he was hemmed in by 2 staff and pushed a table and chair over to escape which hurt another TA's foot. The reason given for exclusion is 'assault' on the staff which I feel is rather strong when he didn't mean to hurt anyone and was reacting due to their failure to meet his needs. Looking at school guidance it seems that they have to be very careful when excluding because of SEN and have to prove that there are material and substantial reasons to exclude but that 'any assault is likely to constitute a material and substantial reason for exclusion' Hmm.
It appears that they may have labelled this as 'assault' to enable them to exclude him. What can I do about this?

OP posts:
ScillyCow · 16/12/2012 21:20

"Staff did not deal with him as they should"

What happened?

What agreed policies are in place?

WHich of these was not followed?

fightingtheschool · 16/12/2012 21:34

They did not de-escalate and instead provoked him with their actions. All staff working with him are meant to have had full training in handling his behaviour and knowing what triggers to avoid.
There is also something that he simply can't do because of his condition and that has also been given as a reason to exclude i.e persistent breach of policy for not doing it.
I have asked for copies of various policies but they have been trying to put me off e.g server down so can't print them off,you will have to write to the Gov's to get them Hmm

OP posts:
BarryShitpeas · 16/12/2012 23:21

Our state primary has a lot of their policies fully accessible from their website, that is bollocks about writing to the governors.

Sorry can't be more helpful, just wanted to show that ime policies are usually easy to get hold of, fair and transparent, so they are definitely playing you.

noblegiraffe · 16/12/2012 23:26

What do you want to happen? The school can't meet his needs so presumably you don't want him to go back there?

If the school is not the right setting for him, then it sounds like the best course of action would have been a managed move to another, more appropriate setting. Was that ever discussed?

Inclusionist · 17/12/2012 07:42

Do you actually want him to be at that school? It sounds like they are not coping well with him.

Is there a school in your area that is resourced for children with your DS's needs or an appropriate Special School? If there really is not you can look at schools out of County and fight for a place at one that could meet your DS's needs properly.

It may be that him being permanently excluded is the only way to get your County to look seriously at finding him a placement that is actually right for him. Perhaps you should take your fight to them rather than his current school?

auntevil · 17/12/2012 17:30

Have the school said H&S issue as a reason for exclusion? This seems to be the favourite get out clause at the moment.
Teachers are "assaulted" therefore it could also happen to children, therefore they would not be giving due care to other children - H&S.
Agree with inclusionist - this could be a blessing in disguise as it sounds like they do not want your DS there, or want to be prepared for him. Sad

prh47bridge · 17/12/2012 19:24

If you want to pursue this your first step is to appeal to the governors. But I tend to agree that it sounds like this school really doesn't want your son and is looking for a way to get rid of him. On the one hand I would like to see the school held properly to account but, being practical, the best thing for your son may be to agree a managed move to another school coupled with removal of the exclusion from his record. I would try to negotiate that with the current school, possibly with the veiled threat of a referral to the courts if they persist in going down the exclusion route.

fightingtheschool · 17/12/2012 20:00

I do want them to be held to account and we will be appealing the decision as one of the reasons given is just laughable - he has Pathological Demand Avoidance but has been excluded for repeatedly refusing instructions! Does the term demand avoidance not give them a clue perhaps?
auntevil they can only permanently exclude for breaching or persistently breaching the behaviour policy and where allowing the pupil to remain in school would seriously harm the education or welfare of the pupil or others in the school. It obviously doesn't matter if your behaviour is caused by anxiety due to failure to meet needs Sad.
We are in negotiations with the LA about a placement out of county that can meet needs and it will be a much better environment for him.

OP posts:
Inclusionist · 18/12/2012 08:35

PDA is incredibly difficult for 'ordinary' schools to manage. Most of the recommended strategies are totally counter-intuitive to teachers and, TBH, quite tricky to pull off in a mainstream classroom (note: I have worked with a severely PDA child and we really struggled with him even in a unit with a staffing ratio of 2:1 adults:children. He made little progress either behaviourally or academically in 2 years and we were implementing every resource and technique in the book and some we invented for him). Maybe cut the school a bit of slack and try to help them to manage your DS better. Can you volunteer to go in and model strategies for them in the classroom?

How much 1:1 time does your DS have?

tiggytape · 18/12/2012 15:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Delalakis · 18/12/2012 16:10

You are entitled to appeal even if you don't want him to go back to that school. It seems to me that this amounts to punishing your child for his disability and their failure to meet his needs, and is therefore disability discrimination. If the governors uphold the exclusion (and they usually do) you have a right to ask for their decision to be reviewed by an independent review panel, and you also have a right to ask for an independent SEN expert to advise the panel. More information at www.education.gov.uk/aboutdfe/statutory/g00210521/statutory-guidance-regs-2012

adeucalione · 18/12/2012 16:25

It is shocking that they can't print policies off for you - I would stand in reception and wait while they printed them, or ask for their file copy (and then they can print a replacement one once the server is up and running).

I think you have been given brilliant advice and I can't add to it really, but did teach a pupil with PDA and it is very difficult to manage. The examples you give are of him trying to take something from a TA, and of him pushing furniture over when 'hemmed in'. These are both things that the child I knew did at one time or another, and it is so difficult to deal with. Sometimes you don't want him to take things out of your hand, and sometimes you do have to crowd round a bit to try to stop the child harming themselves or others. I don't know, I have sympathy for you, your child and the teaching staff I guess.

I hope you find a solution that allows your child to enjoy school again.

fightingtheschool · 18/12/2012 19:08

Have received policies - interesting. Sen policy states that they will make every reasonable effort to avoid excluding a child with a statement as much as is reasonably possible however there may be occasions where the school feels this is unavoidable and that under such circumstances the school will not be unfairly discriminating against the child's SEN Hmm.

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Inaflap · 18/12/2012 19:43

To be honest, if you want out of county provision, particularly non maintained then this is the best thing that can happen. The school have a duty of care to all their students and if he can't meet reasonable demands then this could have implications for the health and safety of other students. PDA is so hard to manage. There are special schools that can't and won't manage this level. I am sure that you have had really challenging moments, throw in 29 other kids into the mix plus massive restrictions on what you can and can't do. The TA was perhaps wrong to get into a confrontational situation and he does sound not to have been handled correctly but if you don't want him back there, I should save your energy for the fight with the lea and the school will probably help you and work with you if you let them in on what you want. Believe it or not and despite all the crap the Daily Mail spouts, we teachers want the best for our students including making sure they are in the right provision.

Good luck and hope you get the placement he needs. Its all so stressful and distressing and sad for your chap as its something he can't help. Most of the staff won't have heard of PDA so you have that to combat as well as there is a lot of prejudice amongst some unfortunately. I've taught somone with PDA and it was the hardest thing ever and actually impossible in a maintained school een though we bent over backwards.

fightingtheschool · 18/12/2012 20:13

Thanks. We are very close to a school that would be really good for him with staff that are all trained and understanding. At least he won't have to endure remarks from TA's such as ' you need to control your emotions' and ' my 5 year old behaves better than you' Sad

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fightingtheschool · 18/12/2012 20:14

Close to getting I meant.

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Inclusionist · 18/12/2012 23:35

I would have thought you might be rubbing your hands with glee at the timing of the px then?

Is it a move to a Special School?

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