Middle class access to grammars via tutorproof 11+ part 2

[boschy]

May I do this? only there were some contrasting views at the end of the last thread which I found interesting.

One was mine (sorry!): "I think fear actually drives a lot of those parents who are desperate to get their child into GS, so they can be 'protected' from these gangs of feral teenagers who apparently run rampage through every non-selective school in the country.

Because clearly if you are not 11+ material you are a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal who likes nothing better than beating up a geek before breakfast and then going to score behind the bike shed before chucking a chair at the maths teacher and making the lives of the nice but dim kids a misery."

And one was from gazzalw: "If you had the choice would you opt for a grammar school or a comprehensive that has gangs?"

Soooo, do people really think that all comprehensives have vicious gangs, and all GS children are angels? Or that only those of academic ability adequate enough to get them through the 11+ should not have to face behavioural disruption of any kind? If you are borderline, or struggling but still work hard, should you just have to put up with disruption because let's face it you're not academic?

PS, re the knuckle dragging Neanderthals I mention above, should have said - "and that's only the girls"

Bonsoir - my comment wasn't directed at you :) seeker was going on about how her ds was missing out on not mixing with GS kids.

Their priorities might just be getting enough food/sleep/warmth/clothing/shelter etc, and having enough to think about the future. You have NO IDEA seeker, NO IDEA.

"seeker was going on about how her ds was missing out on not mixing with GS kids."

No I wasn't. Why are you doing this? What's in it for you? You're ruining the discussion and making yourself look stupid.

Bonsoir - pls ignore my post. I just realised you had cut and paste seekers comments and they were not your comments.

"Their priorities might just be getting enough food/sleep/warmth/clothing/shelter etc, and having enough to think about the future. You have NO IDEA seeker, NO IDEA."

Really? You know everything about my life, do you?

The point you make is exactly why school is so important. And why giving children from disadvantaged backgrounds broader horizons is so important. The children who go to grammar schools generally have those opportunities already. Having a system which entrenches privilege and reinforces disadvantage is just unforgivable.

.... says the woman who rather payronising goes on about how the other kids at her DS's school don't have the 'many advantages' that her son has.

@tantrum - You do realise that seeker is not advocating giving the disadvantaged kid a leg up with a GS education? She wants to ban GSs for everyone.

I was responding to her comment that grammar schools were designed to give the disadvantaged children a leg up.
I didnt say she agreed with it, its irrelevant.

Seeker - I gave you a fantastic example of how a French sink school offered all sorts of amazing horizon broadening subjects (and deprived the clever children of them). It didn't work - the kids didn't want Latin, Italian or Art History. They want dinner on the table and a job at the end of school.

But they dont all though. Do you know how many of ds friends want to make something of their lives, go to uni, have a career? But they arent getting the support from school at all. They are being encouraged to take vehicle maintenance as an option because "at least you will use that in the future"

".... says the woman who rather payronising goes on about how the other kids at her DS's school don't have the 'many advantages' that her son has."

Why is that patronising? It's true.

Bonsoir- why did they "deprive the clever children of them"? That was a stupid thing to do.

I am not advocating depriving anyone of anything. I am advocating trying to make everything accessible to anyone with the desire and ability to benefit from it. I am not prepared to accept that 77% of children should nor aspire to more than dinner on the table at the end of the day.

Seeker - Do you really want me to hit you with The Cheap Shot again?

Go for it. If you want to make yourself look even more of a prat.

APMF do you have a personal axe to grind with seeker?
Because you are being amazingly rude to one person but not anyone else who agrees with her

Tantrums - agree! WTF.
Sorry you have to endure this seeker

seeker - the fact that your school has no orchestra has nothing to do with the fact that it is a Sec Mod. I am sure that there are loads of SMs that have a thriving music scene.

If it is something that you feel strongly about then ask to speak to the HM. Maybe solicit the opinions of other parents. How about contacting your local LEA music services? Do something apart from telling GS parents that your school needs them to fix these problems.

In many ways you and I have a similar story. My DCs have done four MFLs. Going forward they choose two. They do triple science. As for music, there are three orchestras with the top one staffed with grade 5-8 kids. For sports DS is currently trying out for the water polo team. All these opportunities wouldn't be available at their local comp.

If mine had failed the CE I would probably feel what you feel for your son at the SM, lamenting at the opportunities lost. So I can empathize with you.

But the reason why I don't is that you come across as a champagne socialist. You aren't that different from the politicians who are against selective education for the electorate but see nothing wrong with getting a selective one for your own DCs. The fact that they have been consistently saying the same thing for years doesn't make it less hypocritical.

Well, MNHQ, since I have seeker's permission to go for The Cheap Shot....

If my kids were KS level 4 at Year 7 and my DS failed to get into a not particularly selective GS I would not be making the amazingly patronising and pompous remark that your DS is going to do better than the other kids at your DS's Sec Mod because they don't have you as a mum.

But is is perfectly possible to be against the grammar school system as it stands but still have dcs in a GS because it is the most suitable option, isnt it?

Too much APMF

You should be intelligent enough to have a debate without making nasty personal comments.

It makes you look stupid.

@tantrum - I am not that full of myself that I think that I am right and that everyone who doesn't agree is wrong.

Some of you agree with seeker that the GS model is unfair. I agree. Some of you think that GS selection should be modified to select bright kids from disadvantaged back grounds. I agree. Some of you are against the GS model in principle but you accept that it the GS is the best option for your DC. I can respect that.

This is why I don't have an issue with most of you. But, as I said above, seeker wants to remove your/my choice while retaining her right to choose. To me that is hypocrisy.

Stop it, APMF.

Oh do put a sock in it, APMF.

Honesty, the amount of MN space derailed by stupid arguments about Jabed's and Seeker's dss would probably appall the pair of those boys!

I dont really understand what you are trying to say APMF but I dont really want it explained any further because it is not nice at all.