Why is tutoring such a big deal with some people?

[APMF]

We downloaded some past papers. We 'tutored' our DCs in standard test taking techniques ie watch the clock, skip a question if you are stuck and return to it later, recheck your maths answers if you have the time and so on. Now, if parents want to pay someone to tutor their DCs in such obvious exam techniques then my rates are quite reasonable :)

After listening to so many presumably working class parents harp on about middle class parents buying a GS place for their dim? DCs, I wonder if the said parents realise how stupid they sound.

I mean, there is no secret technique that is known only to the Secret Brotherhood of Tutors. Some parents haven't the inclination to do the above and so they hire someone to do it for them. This hardly gives their kids an advantage over yours.

I get it that some of your DCs didn't pass the 11+ but why blame others for the fact that you didn't do your part as a parent or that your DC wasn't clever enough to pass?

Bulletpoint- define "crap"

All highly selective grammar schools can teach comprehensives is that putting mainly clever, well behaved children from supportive family backgrounds in a class together is beneficial for those children and makes life easier for their teachers. I don't think that's trailblazing, exactly.

APMF - all you seem to think is that only crap comprehensives are typical comprehensives. What makes you think that is justified as an opinion? Isn't that just a feature of the area in which you live, just the same as the good comprehensives are a feature of the area in which other posters live?

If you have rich folks as your neighbours then something tells me that yours isn't a typical comprehensive.

What is a typical comprehensive?

In some non-grammar areas the difference between two comprehensives can be as if one were a GS, the other a secondary modern.

The idea that in non-grammar areas all comprehensives are bastions of equality and egalitrianism is pretty misplaced.

Of course it's misplaced to believe that if you set up comprehensive schools everywhere, they will all be equally good. It's as misplaced as believing that if you have grammar schools and selective private schools in an area, you won't be making any difference to the state provision for everyone else. It's not quite as misplaced as thinking that having grammar schools and private schools in an area is a good thing for the other local state schools, since it clearly hasn't been a good thing to date.

Yes what is a typical comprehensive?

As I've previously mentioned the school I've referenced has a very mixed intake. It does well for both those at the top and bottom of the academic scale. There are much worse schools in the county (my DM was a teacher at one with particulary low results) but these tend be in areas with high levels of deprivation coupled with a real lack of interest in education from parents. My DM had regular visits from aggressive parents for daring to discipline their DC. But I don't think that is representative of where most people on this board live.

In an area with a diverse social makeup there is no reason comprehensives can't succeed. Cream the 'best' children those whose parents have a keen interest in their children's education/appropriate cultural capital off at an arbitrary age and send the rest to a secondary modern (which is distinct from a comprehensive) and you are creating inequality.

Well my niece attends a school in a non grammar area. In fact it is considered a reasonably good school.

Yet last year out of 225 students, only 6 got an A*in English at GCSE.

If there was a grammar school and the top sets had been creamed off I'd assume far more able students would have got that grade.

What the school is good at is getting the maximum number of average studebnts to pass their GCSEs. It really isn't good at challenging the top sets.

APMF - if you had grown up in a poor area with grammar schools and had failed your 11 plus, do you think you would have been better or worse off in the Secondary Modern than you were in your comprehensive school?

And it's an entirely different discussion on how to engage children living in areas of high deprivation where there is not the parental aspirations for them to succeed in education... Just not particularly relevant to this thread

And before anyone thinks the English was anomoly caused by the marking debacle, other subjects didn't go well either. 5 A*s in history. None in music. I couldgo on.

Yet the the score for pupils getting 5 GCSEs are great ergo this is a good school.

So it seems the average and lower ability students are being very well catered for but the higher ability students not so much.

Wordfactory - but that is down to the individual school. Just as you get good and bad private and state schools.

Many comprehensives are very good at stretching bright pupils, I know mine was. If I recall 30% of English Lit A level students in my very mixed year achieved an A (and this was before A grades were ten a penny )

This is backed up by the school's 'programme' for helping pupils apply to Oxbridge (interview training etc). Certainly very supportive of brighter students.

But that's my point ob.

Provision is patchy.

The idea that simply removing the grammar situation resolves all problems isn't true. And whilst to be frank it's lovely for you that your school was good it doesn't help my niece or any of the other able DC within it?

Actually it's worse than I said as 275 students took GCSE english!!! Out of 60 taking french 6 got an A*, out of 81 taking german none did. And this is supposed to have a language specialism.

But this is not a bad school. Because it succeeds absolutely with its average ability students.

Now come on word.... You're always telling me that the fact that comprehensive schools I know and use do a bloody good job is unhelpful and irrelevant and I shouldn't say it.....!

Provision is patchy.

Provision has always been patchy and probably always will be. In the old days there were good secondary moderns and some were absolutely diabolical. Some grammar schools were good, and some were like mine, which had a good opinion of itself but wasn't really all that much to write home about.

I don't know what the solution is; I am not sure that anyone knows.

The reason I say it TOSN is that you use that information to assert that comprehensive education is generally working well in the UK. Its not irrelevent to you or your children. But it doesn't help my niece. What would help? Possibly access to a grammaer school?

Agreed provision is patchy but there are good and bad schools in every sector. I'm guessing your niece has supportive parents anyway and will achieve wherever she goes to school (and let's be honest GCSE results are meaningless once you get to higher education).

IME A level classes at comprehensives are very different from GCSE as you are only left with those choosing to be at school and even schools 'educating' to improve on league table rankings will be more focussed on the number of students achieving A*/A.

Well, I think I tend to use it in direct contradiction to being told 'state schools don't do x or y' if I know that such a blanket assertion is not true.

I don't know - should your niece be getting an a*? What's she predicted? Or is it too soon for that yet?

She has fairy avergae parents tbh. Not educated or professional. And looking at those stats sshe will not get the grades she would have got anyway not unless you believe that out of 275 kids only a handful are bright.

Wordfactory but if a small number of pupils are achieving A* it shows it's not impossible at the school and that they are obviously teaching up to that level? Perhaps your niece wouldn't get into a very selective school?

Are these the same branch of extended family who disapprove of too much homework?

In my year of 500 students a relatively low percentage will have achieved A* simply as a result of the makeup of the school. Nothing to do with quality of teaching.

TOSN I don't know her predicted grades. But she was always extremely bright. Top marks at KS 1 and 2. Primary teachers commenting etc. But her comp seems to put its energy into getting everyone 5 GCsE

wordfactory - "But her comp seems to put its energy into getting everyone 5 GCsE."

Schools, like many organisations, respond to whatever stick or carrot they are presented with by whomever is in authority.