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Original poster

Other people's violent kids...

99 replies

rumtumtigger · 01/04/2006 14:42

My dd is 6 and there are 3 boys in her class who physically hurt the other children every day.

Is this typical? And how do others deal with it? My dd is refusing to go to parties when these boys are invited along, which seems a shame. The parents of the violent boys don't stay at the parties so other kids normally get hurt. One of the parents doesn't even stop her child hurting others when she is there. All the parents concerned are educated and comfortably off and don't neglect their kids in other ways.

Anyone else have experience of this - is it the same for all of us?

OP posts:
Flip · 01/04/2006 16:42

Understood magnolia. As I said earlier, I put myself in harms way and take the hits from him. I do however ask the parent of the child that is the focus of ds1's violence to intervene physically if they want to. That is a brilliant shock tactic. Especially if the guys six foot four and looking like a hells angel as he holds your child upside down by the ankle until he stops struggling and swearing. Of course, there's usually a shortage of those type which is a shame.

Original poster
rumtumtigger · 01/04/2006 16:43

Flip I am seeing what you mean now about exclusion not being a good way forward as working on feelings in a small group seems very constructive as an approach. I feel I can now speak to the school in a more informed and constructive way Smile

OP posts:
misdee · 01/04/2006 16:45

They are children, they arent rotton. I have 3 dd's. my eldest is the most lovely child you meet, she looks out for others and is great with younger kids. now dd2 is violent. they havent been raised differently, but dd2 has some degree of SN (ASD traits have been noted by her pre-school). But she looks normal, and can act normal at times. But if she gets cornered or over excited then she can lash out. I have eyes in the back of my head at parties and in soft play areas, as i know how she can be. If she does lash out then i remove her until she calms down. She just really takes things too far.

Flip · 01/04/2006 16:46

RTT - don't let your child be unhappy. I have asked to be kept informed of any consistent problems. But the biggest problem I have is that ds1 will stand and lie bare faced without a second thought. You need to stand firm. What these boys are doing, all be it indescriminate, is bullying other children. They'll see the girls as easy pickings. But it will take just one group to stand up to them for it to stop. Can you not ask a group of your childs friends to stand their ground and stare out the boys who harass them?

Original poster
rumtumtigger · 01/04/2006 16:53

It is difficult because the boys kick and punch, and I can't tell dd to do this back, nor would she even if I did tell her, it's just not her style. She says that she always tells the teacher - sometimes the teacher says "just ignore it" presumably for more minor offences - and sometimes she tells the child they will miss part of the break time - according to dd (so not definitively accurate!) this doesn't actually happen very often.

OP posts:
Flip · 01/04/2006 16:56

RTT - I'm glad you're seeing that exclusion from 'normal' children isn't the answer. There are an awful lot of strategies in place for this kind of thing and I'm disappointed that your school aren't being pro-active. These kids won't stop unless they are shown why they need to and made to empathise with other children's feelings.

I go through days where I feel so incapable of helping my child that I start to lose hope. I'm having a very positive time at the moment and it shows in his behaviour. He hasn't been excluded since Septemeber and he told me last week that he's going to try his hardest to be good all this next week so that he can sing a solo piece in the choir at the Easter service.

We had a chat after he tried to hit his teacher for not allowing him in the football team. I explained to him that his verbal and physical abuse was not the sort of thing the school wanted representing them at events. We talked it out and in the end he realised why he wasn't allowed. He puts his heart and soul into everything he does if it interets him but being disqualified for his behaviour rather than ability hurt him a lot. I'm hoping that we're coming out the other side but it's been a long seven years.

Good luck RTT.

mieowscintillant · 01/04/2006 16:57

I have a violent DD1, who has SNs, and doesn't understand that she hurts people. She looks normal and to look at her, you wouldn't know. She is getting better now, but we do struggle with her as you have to be on contant lookout for her.

misdee · 01/04/2006 16:59

blimey mieow i know, i was run ragged the other day with your dd1 and my dd2 to keep an eye on in soft play. they are so alike.

spidermama · 01/04/2006 17:00

I'm sorry if this sounds unsympathetic but believe me I am extremely sympathetic to the huge number of children who are having their school lives ruined by a small handful of others.

Throughout my schooldays and now in my children's I see these dispruptive boys seriously damaging the learning and the confidence and the entire experience of the rest of the group. I'm sorry if I appear narrow minded Flip but it makes me Angry ... I have three boys myself btw.

Disruptive, violent Boys ruined my school life and that of many of my friends. They suck up energy and resources and create an atmosphere of terror amongst other kids who are forced to be with them day after day.

Sorry if this makes uncomfortable reading, but I'm thinking of the interests of the majority of kids not the small, disruptive few.

I can understand that you may want the community to make your son a better person, but I don't see this as the role of my children. I would not put up with violence in my adult life and I bitterly resent that so many children are forced to do just that day after day.

With the best will in the world, schools can't protect all of their children all of the time.

I'm not completely unsympathetic to the parents of disruptive kids, I'm just MORE sympathetic to the kids who're having school time ruined by them.

mieowscintillant · 01/04/2006 17:00

They are very similar, its like looking at DD1's twin sometimes.

Flip · 01/04/2006 17:00

RTT - you will find that schools are loathed to keep children in at play times because the teachers want their cup of tea and they can't leave them unsupervised. If your headmaster uses this as an excuse then you could suggest to him the wall system that I know quite a few in my area use. If a child misbehaves they put them on the wall. Basically they have to stand against the wall and all their friends are sent away. It's kind of like a time out. They're in the yard were the superviser can keep an eye on them but they're not allowed to interact with the other children. Ds1 hates it. Don't be fobbed off. Stand strong and get the backing of some other parents. Call a meeting and invite the headmaster and SENCO.

Chandra · 01/04/2006 17:03

Against the wall? is it still in use? it worked wonders as a child, not that I was sent there very often though Wink

misdee · 01/04/2006 17:04

yes but thewall encourgaes other kids to throw balls at them, or was thisonly my primary school? Wink

Flip · 01/04/2006 17:07

spidermama - social learning is as much a part of school life as reading and writing. Exclusions create the dole scroungers of tomorrow and serve no purpose but to continue the social decline.

I offered to pay for a special needs person to be with my child every afternoon, which is his worst time. I wasn't allowed to and I don't have much money but I would have found it if I could have eased some of the pressure on the teacher. The class now have a support worker to help out every afternoon which the school found funding for. She isn't just for my child, she's for all the children.

No child should be left to rot. There are very few children that are unteachable. With strong behaviour plans that are taylored to each difficult child in place, there should be very little disruption.

Flip · 01/04/2006 17:08

I'm sure that no one gets stoned while they're on time out. Although, maybe that would be a good deterrent. Grin

misdee · 01/04/2006 17:10

tbh spidermama your attitude worries me. dd2 isnt school age yet, and its one thing ido worry about is her disruptive/violent tendancies and her inability to concentrate. I have already had people refer to her as weird (i prefer eccentric Wink), and have had people drag theirt child off when she has got a little overeager (not violent) and too in their childrens faces.

i am just hoping she qualifies for exytra help if she needs it. but given how bad the LEA are here i very much doubt it.

Original poster
rumtumtigger · 01/04/2006 17:10

Flip you are giving me a lot more insight into how things work, how they could and should work better, and the barriers to getting to what sounds as though it will be in the interests of the other children too and the boys themselves - who are obviously not especially content individuals right now.

I find it hard to approach other parents though as these are sensitive issues.

OP posts:
Flip · 01/04/2006 17:18

RTT - after your second post I was very angry and wrote several things which I later deleted before posting as it would have solved nothing. The fact that you have listened and accepted someone elses view is testement to who you are. I'm sure that if you decided to confront maybe just one of the mothers, that you could do it calmly. Admittedly, she might be offended as I was initially. But communication is the only way to see past that and the school should be the key party here. By all means, print off this thread and show it to the head master. I have done the same a couple of years ago when I needed such desperate help. If you find any of my threads in the archives you'll see how far I have come in just a couple years.

I've been to hell and back with my child.

misdee · 01/04/2006 17:24

i was going to parp.......

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 01/04/2006 17:24

Flip - it sounds like you have had a dreadful time. Respect - you've worked hard to improve things both for your child and for the others he comes into contact with. Hope it works out (and that this post doesn't sound dreadfully patronising Blush).

RTT - hope that you can go forward with this and things change for the better for your dd.

Flip · 01/04/2006 17:29

Misdee - sorry if that was a parp because you felt ignored. I did appreciate your support greatly and I know that the powers that be are always reluctant to diagnose and without a diagnosis there isn't much help. A lot of it is down to the school discretion so send her to the best you can.

SMBK - not at all patronising from my point of view. I was quite prepared to be hung drawn and quartered to stand my corner.

tigermoth · 01/04/2006 17:53

just skim read this and flip I very much admire your posts. I have some empathy with them as my oldest son when he was six could be a hitter and was definitely a handful and I had some of what you have, though definitely on a lesser scale.

Rumtumtigger, can I echo scummymummy here and ask you exactly what violence you are talking about? You are using quite strong and adult language to describe the behaviour of 6 year old boys.

You feel there are three OTT violent aggressive boys in one class - that seems a high percentage to me. Of course it happen and who am I to say not? It would be easier to picture what makes these boys behavour really unacceptable if you could be more specific about what they actually do. To get this upset, you must know more about them?

misdee · 01/04/2006 18:01

not parp because i was ignored, but because its a subject that i was beaten down on before IIRC.

MeerkatsUnite · 01/04/2006 18:16

What about a situation whereby a parent is clearly not troubled by school or the reaction of other parents as to her childrens' continuous bad behaviour?. It has been previously mentioned that both children have "behavioural issues". Therefore both of them are treated with kid gloves by school.

This person is not interested or has in any way tried to address the situation. Personally I feel the whole family unit need to receive outside help and support and its not forthcoming.

Being called into the school on a regular basis re their behaviour has had no effect.

comments welcomed.

Crackle · 01/04/2006 18:19

We have violent twins in one of our kids' classes. Violent is exactly the right work for biting through the shin, poking eyes with sharpened pencils, stabbing legs with aforementioned pencils leaving the lead inbedded and pulling hair out by the handfull. Violence isn't the sole preserve of adults, it starts very young indeed and is nothing like 'boisterous' or 'spirited'.