Areas where state schools are better than private?

[Narrie]

Does anyone live in an area where the state schools are really better than the private ones? I picked this up elsewhere but am afraid to comment there.

I have lived and worked in the Midlands where there are few private schools to choose but the state schools are not very good. I have lived in Nottingham, where again I felt the state schools were poor.

Even in London there were some awful schools and private was best.

I currently live in Cornwall having got here working in Exeter, Plymouth and Barnstaple. None of the state schools were good there.

Just wondered where the good state provision is. Is it just odd schools within a mass of poor provision or are there really whole areas where state schools are better?

Thanks.

(PS I have my own DC in a boarding school partly because of the state schooling and partly because we move around so much)

middleclassonabursary
you have a lot more faith in the education systems of India, Russia and China than the leaders of those countries do
that is why our fee paying schools are full of their children [hhmm]

@middleclass Your stats purporting to show that all the private schools you had had dealings with were significantly better than CRGS (a school with which I have no association, and which I didn't originally bring up as an example of a good state school) did not stack up at all -like the Telegraph tables you were not comparing like with like (and your figures didn't match anything on CRGS's website either). I didn't bother to pull you up on it because you clearly have a fixed idea on these things which will not change but anyone presenting stats where the percentages add up to more than 100%, as you did (I'm guessing you were confusing A*/A with A - but really, who knows?) can't expect to be taken seriously. The DfES says that CRGS had the best A level results last year. That's good enough for me. The FT (laughably biased) table still, after making all sorts of adjustments designed to favour private schools and disfavour state schools, still places DD1's school in the top 50. That's good enough for me. After all, I got to Cambridge from a school which while good (and better than the local girls' private schools at the time) certainly wasn't in the top 50 in the country.

CRGS is clearly a fablas school, plus it's free. I reckon any kid would be incredibly lucky to go there and will get a brilliant education. Anyone who doesn't believe that - well, that's their prerogative. But most private schools don't get the same level of results and they cost a fortune. Those of us who can see beyond snobbishness and prejudice can appreciate that point. Sadly, not everybody can do so.

Incidentally - I never said that there were no superb private schools. In fact, I said quite the opposite. None of them can be found within 100 miles of where I live though.

You may think I'm talking crap but both China and Indias economies are growing significantly faster than ours and as the plaque on Bill Clintons desk stated "it's the economy stupid" they are two of the biggest players on the world stage and we do not have a God given right to be there. If we fail to educate our young people properly so that they can compete at least on equal terms against the Chinese Indians Russians in this super competive world we now live in then talkin your children and your grand children may not have "a coat" to get.

middleclassonbursary
do you read The Economist? You should.
China and India are growing faster than the UK because they are still industrialising, as the UK did nearly 200 years ago.
China's economic figures are controlled by the Communist Party.
India's are mired in endemic corruption and a collapsing infrastructure.

If you think their systems are so good, send your kids to board there -
when in fact the top Chinese, Indian and Russian politicians all send their children to boarding school in the UK.
They also buy houses in the UK

You know nothing about the level of achievement I expect from my children.

@middleclass when did you last travel to India, China or Russia for business? I was in India and China (separate trips) earlier this year. Russia last year, going again (sadly) next spring, probably. It's very fashionable for people to talk about India China and Russia (and other countries too, Brazil is an obvious one) as posing these massive threats to the futures of our children and it's not wrong - but often when I check with the people claiming such detailed knowledge of these countries it turns out they have never been to any of them let alone on a recurring professional basis. Talkin is right - the education systems in those countries are not currently considered overly fit for purpose so they are sending their kids here for school university or both. Unless they can afford the US in which case they go there.

If India ever get electricity and then proper countrywide internet sorted out then things will be different. But it's a big if and they aren't there yet.

Mind you, neither are we, so.....

Mordion further up this thread we were given a link regarding top performing schools in Essex that "whump" the independent schools. Top of this list was Colchester County High School For Girls I dont live anywhere near Essex so have never heard of it either. I looked on their website and thats where I obtained my stats from I then looked on the websites of four schools I considered for my DS and took their exam results of their websites. According to Colchester High 18% got As and 57% As and As. At three of the independent schools over 50% got As and between 85-91% As and A grades (not B's) you may not accept these figures but that is how they read on the individual websites. I accept that I may not have made it clear that the second figure included A*s and As but I suppose I thought that this was obvious!

I have extensive links with India and believe only a fool can ignore them And others and their fast growing economies. As one of my lecturers at university used to say whilst discussing the rise and fall of global economies "nothing lasts for ever." Also here under my stone the general consensus from the many economists on the likes of radio 4 is that these countries and yes I agree about Brazil are becoming increasingly successful this is backed up by the recently published GDP growth for China although slowing its still over 7% whereas us ours has just managed 1% with the general consensus from eminent economist that this may be a one of and that next time the figure could return to 0% growth or even negative growth.
As individuals we do what we think is best for our own children I believe that the top independent schools are preparing children for tomorrows world in a way that the state is currently failing to do. Luckily we live in a democratic society so you are free to disagree with me.

middleclass It was CRGS which the BBC said was the top school, by results. As I said in my post upthread, which you quoted before then providing your 'stats'. Colchester County High for Girls is lower down the list and gets rather less good results (although still good). No wonder your figures for Colchester County High for Girls(?) didn't match anything on the CRGS website or the old newspaper tables!

According to the Graun, CRGS got 80% A*/A in 2012. Can't find the info for 2011. Looks pretty comparable to me. And way better than most private schools. According to the Telegraph 2012 tables which handily;) provide a separate private school table here www.telegraph.co.uk/education/leaguetables/9498024/A-level-results-2012-Independent-school-results-table.html
only 9 private schools got higher percentage at A/A* (and of course these represent far fewer pupils). None of those schools was in Colchester either. So whoever it was said that the grammars in Essex whump the private schools in Essex was right.

And the thing about assuming people would understand what your faultily labelled stats were supposed to mean? That's what people attempting to cloud the issue always say. I've got a professional interest in dodgy data.

So - you haven't been to any of those countries for work or pleasure then? That's OK. Not that many people have. I have, though. Too blooming often. So I hardly think you can accuse me of ignoring them. Since I've, you know, taken the trouble to go to them. Repeatedly.

"I have Extensive links in India"
Hmmmm.
I have "extensive links" in the USA but sadly they give me no understanding at all of the mentality of the Bible belt or most Romney supporters.
93% of Americans do NOT have passports, but 100% of the ones I know do ....

Investment managers have a huge vested interest in bigging up the BRICs - a bit like they bigged up CDOs a couple of years ago.
I'll believe that the BRICS are the true world leaders when their politicians no longer send their children outside the country to school.

Colchester is 79th on the FT league table. It usually does well. It is a good state school. In fact the head of my daughter's school north London Collegiate I think used to be head there. It was 114th the year before.

rankings.ft.com/secondary-schools/colchester-county-high-school-for-girls/secondary-schools-2012#secondary-schools-2012

It's a bit selective though just to pick one out. On the whole most areas have no grammars at all and most areas find privates do better than state.

Indeed China mentioned on the thread is believe it not hosting UK pubilc schools who set up there and not comps. I wonder why.....

As for those who say it is not fair they picked such careers which mean they cannot afford to do the best for their children by paying school fees - why do you earn so little? Coudl you not take a second job or what is the reason? Secondly it may be unfair you feed your child healthy fiood and your neighbour does not but that does not mean we should restrict you from giving your child a healthy diet or that the sttae school pay for food for your neighbour.

Xenia
as you well know and we have argued before, the bulk of the population do not "pick careers"
and who would deliver your shopping if they did?

MordionAgenos
What you write is insulting. Russian politicians and millionaires send their children to the UK because they intend to live in the UK because it is the only country in Europe that doesn't tax foreign income. And because they have committed all their crimes in Russia, they feel safer abroad. And they adore Royalty because it has been destroyed in Russia. And Russia has a history of abrupt change that they wouldn't like because they would like to save their money. it has little to do with education.

Russia has an excellent schooling system that is what the Soviet Union built that is slowly being dismantled. You need to look for an amount of Russian physisists/mathematicians around the world's universities and laboratories to see that. Cuba, for that instance, as well has an excellent education that supplies the Latin American world with doctors.

You need to stop your imperialist thinking imagining the world evolves around you and whatever flops and burps of education that have traditionally formed are lingering on here are the best... This is nonsense. UK is behind developed countries in schooling their children, this is a fact. Now, why is that??

However individually they could do better. It is rather silly to say I will become a minimum wage worker for life because as my noble duty as a nation we need the lowest paid in these jobs so I will ensure I never earn much because some muggins has to be landed with the dross jobs and it is my duty to do it. That is a silly attitude. Many many women every year leave one career and p ick one where you earn more and many do that in order to be able to earn school fees. Other women sit at home as housewives never doing a day's work and moan about being unable to pay school fees.

Do as I did. I take 2 weeks holiday a year. I have not even had a maternity leave (I used holiday) over the last 28 years of being a mother. Not surprisingly I can afford school fees. We reap what we sow.

@Xenia on the other hand colchester royal grammar school which was the school we were talking about is 3rd. rankings.ft.com/secondary-schools/colchester-royal-grammar-school

Some of us just manage to have spare time, an excellent education that opens all the doors for our DCs for free Xenia. Much the better option IMO. Then you don't have to get on a dreadful treadmill of having to find a job that earns enough for the fees-you can do one you enjoy. (If you get a well paid one that you enjoy then it is all to the good if it suits you-the ones I find interesting and challenging don't pay a lot).

@xenia I could afford school fees too. But my DD1 goes to a much better school than the private schools round here. And I have 7 weeks holiday a year.

Mordion you seen unnecassarily aggressive I was not trying to hide my stats as I too have an academic interest in them I confessed that I perhaps didn't make it clear enough but as this is not a disertation there is no need to be quite so critical. Even with you figures for the other Colchester school my point remains valid that ultimately some independent schools "whump" even the best performing state schools.
I also said I have extensive links with India not I've never been to India you seem very good at putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 if it suits your argument. I am not anti state school in fact the opposite and many of my comments could equally well be addressed at parts of the independent sector. I struggle to see where all this is getting your average child in an average school be it state or independent. I just think as parents we need to be aware that things are changing we no longer rule half the world and that this must be reflected in the education we offer our children. I think the very top independent schools are grasping this the state sector perhaps needs to realise this too.

Anybody willing to praise the Chinese and Indian School systems yet
so that when my DCs grow up they cannot afford coats?

@middleclass Not agreeing with you != being aggressive. Picking you up on inconsistencies and inaccuracies != being aggressive. Pointing out that only 9 private schools got a better A*/A percentage than CRGS (which again, I will remind you I have no association with other than being admiring of its excellent results) != being aggressive.

I asked you how recently you had been to those countries you mentioned. I told you how recently I had been to them (Brazil I haven't been to for work since 2001, I've subsequently met my Latin American colleagues in other countries in the region). You chose not to disclose when you had last been in any of those countries. I wasn't the only person to join the dots.

"ultimately some independent schools "whump" even the best performing state schools"

I don't think anyone is disputing this. There are some excellent private schools. However, from the schools I CAN CHOOSE FROM, given where I live (and having boarded as a child, it is not an option that I will consider), the private options available to me are not as good as the state ones for a boy.

I could move, I suppose - but then, in the same way as everyone says education is not just about results, life is not just about moving somewhere I would not like to live in order for my children to access (very marginally) better schools.

Many p arents are happy with state schools. I have no problems with that. The privsate schools educate 8% of children and the children get 50% of the best university places, comprise 70% +_ of judges, lots of the cabinet etc etc. So arguably there is nothing better on which you can spend your money as a prviate school place but if people are happy with their state schools that is great too. I have no problem with that. Strange though if they are so good that China isn't asking for off shoots of the comprehensives to set up in China, only the privates. sStrange they are not shipping children over here to go to our comps rather than our private schools. Of course the answer is that on the whole the private schools are better.

However I certainly agree that many seclective state schools (there are very very few of them) do get a good few chidlren into good universities. We need to chart their careers though because we need to look at what those daughters earn at 40, not did they get into Bristol in order to do a good comparison. Don't discount the soft factors. Some children who are clever may not have all the skills employers need which may be a certainly social skill or accent or lack of accent or whatever it is and sometimes those things can be obtained from private schools but exclusively . I am not hard line about this. I love that we have these choices - home education, religious school, state schools comp, selective private or whatever. Summer Hill, Eton, the Iranian school the Saudi school in London etc

Xenia
sometimes you do type such garbage
Strange they are not shipping children over here to go to our comps rather than our private schools
well of course not, the parents do not live in catchment
duh

PS my kids NON selective school got around 20 into Russell Group Unis last year and 6 into Oxbridge after their 6th form colleges .....
but that's just empirical evidence to be shot down by others

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/6202622/English-schools-abroad-Forever-England.html

Actually some parents from Jamaica in London send their children back home to be educated there to avoid some inner city schools.