Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

OK so what would you REALLY do to get your kids into a 'good' school?

125 replies

shimmy21 · 24/03/2006 12:24

If you had the money or the opportunity would you...
lie about where you live?
practise a religion you don't believe in?
move house?
buy a second investment property?
bribe the panel?
appeal on spurious grounds?

or any better ideas?

OP posts:
edam · 29/03/2006 10:56

DominiConnor, I'm not convinced that your market solution is workable or appropriate for a public service like education. Driving the weakest operators out of business may be a good model for capitalism, but in terms of education, you are talking about closing schools down. What guarantee is there that those kids will get a better education as a result of that disruption? Wouldn't it be better to work to improve the schools that exist already? I don't want evangelical Christian millionaires being encouraged to buy their way into my local school so they can indoctrinate my kids with creationism, thanks very much. Which is the model we are currently being offered.

I have moved house to give ds the best chance of getting into a good school. So we are living in a house that is far from ideal but in an ideal place. Will cost us another £30k to make the house right-ish for us to stay in while he grows up, I reckon, on top of the premium we originally paid for moving here. I do feel fortunate that we were in a position to move near good schools though, lots of people aren't.

Wouldn't do any of the other things. Can't afford private, wouldn't want to lie. The only thing I might do if pushed would be to join the local church. Which is kind of 'my' religion, culturally which I would quite like to hand on to ds in a 'this is your background' way.

Nightynight · 29/03/2006 13:10

lol ozjo, threads on UK schools always make me have the same reaction - substitute France/Germany...

soopermum1 · 29/03/2006 13:15

erm, back to the debate anyone?

we are moving so i can be closer to my work but i did check out the school situation when we were deciding. the local school is catholic, fairly good and withni walking distance, DS is christened catholic and it was important for me to do that but have to get my arse into gear and attend mass a bit more Blush

as for seconday school, haven't eve thought about it. who's to say the good school i'd like to send DS to in 9 years time doesn't go down the toilet in that time? if i have to i'll go private, the amount i currently play in nursery fees should cover school fees.

looked at 'the oratory's website (if it's good enough for tony blair's kids, it's good enough for mine Grinbut was scared off by the massive religious commitment, this wasn't just about rocking up to mass every week, i felt i'd have to coach DS to announce his intention to become a priest in order to successfully get a place!

Wordsmith · 29/03/2006 13:33

Back to the original question - I'm with bluejelly, I really don't think I'd go with any of those options and I agree until m/c parents use their local schools en masse you will always have good and bad schools.

But it's easy for me to say. I live in a nice area with good schools. I really don't know how I'd feel if we only had really crap schools to choose from. I suppose I would just try and give my kids all the help and support I could to offset any shortfall I felt they were getting at school.

I have posted on this subject several times before and still don't know the answer. I may feel differently when my kids, currently aged 6 and 2, go to high school. However I would like to think I would still stand by my principles. Can't see the point of having them in the first place (principles that is) if you then demonstrate to your kids that they are a 'moveable feast'.

oliveoil · 29/03/2006 13:44

Where I live, I have an option of at least 3 good schools to go to.

One is Catholic, and we had both girls christened to cover this option (dh is Catholic but verrry lapsed).

The one I am hoping on is CofE and dd1 currently goes to the playgroup attached, it is not a guarantee, but 100% of the children get in the school.

However, if I lived in an area of extreme competition, I wouldn't hestitate to practise a religion if it would get my child into a decent school.

Options involving money are out as we are skint, and I can't lie to save my life, rubbish.

2ManyPimms · 29/03/2006 14:02

I could NEVER lie about where I live. Nor could I practice religion - I am an athiest. I'd never do anything sly or underhand to get my child into a desired school. It has a way of getting back to you - not worth the risk!

We are in a position to move as required to be in the best area to obtain a place at our desired secondary school. Should the place not be available, both children will go private.

In saying this, I am becoming increasingly concerned by the state of British society as a whole and am looking seriously into "upping sticks" and moving to France.

Time will tell...

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 29/03/2006 14:09

well we bought a house directly next to the school (share a boundary wall with them - and the school hall is literally the other side of it - and actually see if from where i'm sitting now).

But he was almost gurantted a place at the school anyhow because of me being the Director of Music at the church (and the headmistress thinking he's an absolute angel Blush - thought I bet that's changed in the since September when he started there Grin). Also it was extraordinalary (sp) close to all the other stuff we needed - the church, the nursery DS2 will go to next September, town, Dr.s etc etc - not to mention in a better area - and we were planning to move regardless of where we ended up in town.

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 29/03/2006 14:20

I'm sorry but I don't agree with the "middle class" private education thing at all.

We have one private school in this town - it's "ok" - nothing special - doesn't come particularly high up the tables when the results are published - infact senior school in the next town which a large number of children from here go to is usually higher up. Apart from that senior school we have just 3 senior schools in the town - which are supposed to serve all 13 primary schools in the town, plus several outside of the town in surrounding villages. the quality of those primary schools varies greatly - from 2 which have been highly praised by ofsted - to one that have been on special measures and which have dreadful reputations.

None of the three senior schools in this town are really that great - one with a lot of middle class students (because of it's location and lack of decent private school round here) is on special measures! The other 2 which also serve a wide vareity of 'classes' are just mediocre.

The influence of the 'middle class' makes no impact at all - it'll be interesting to see what happens when they finally get round to building the new senior school to serve the growing town (very clever council - closed one school a few years back, sold the land which has now been developed into houses and now they've realised they don't have enough schools!).

Rhubarb · 29/03/2006 14:32

2manypimms - no you're not! You slagged off France in another thread!!!

It IS better for education though. They generally start school when they are 2, although this is entirely voluntary and if you should choose to send your child to school at this age, it is free. Compulsory education starts at 6. They are under no pressure at all. Their way of thinking is to get the children interested in things like reading, by having lots of story times, visits to libraries and so on, so that when the children start 'big' school at 6, reading comes easier to them because they WANT to read rather than being forced to. There are no tests for them, the atmosphere is very relaxed and the children learn a lot better.

It'll be difficult for us moving back to the UK as I disagree with the education system. However I will not send her private as I disagree that those who can afford to, in theory, get a better education for their kids than those who don't. And quite frankly I'd rather spend any excess money on a backpacking adventure for us all!

The children would normally go to a Catholic school as we are practicising catholics, but if I have issues with the school, I'd send them to a state one.

bluejelly · 29/03/2006 14:46

Also i think there is no guarantee whatsoever that kids will get a better education by going private.
I know three people who were expelled from private school. Others who were bullied mercilessly. And one who left school without any GCSEs at all!

I know these things can all happen in the state sector, but at least they are free!

2ManyPimms · 29/03/2006 16:36

Rhu - I Didn't "slag off" France - gimme a break. Said I didn't think I could live there due to my difficulty with grasping foreign languages (I blame the US educational system). DH has been ON and ON and ON about moving to France and that has put me off as well. Waaaayyyy back in my wee cranium I am vaguely entertaining the idea (DON'T TELL DH, he'd have a field day!!!) - especially when I become frustrated with the UK (which is becoming more and more frequent).

DominiConnor · 29/03/2006 16:48

I was clumsy in implying that I favoured "market" solutions to education. I do not. The best education systems seem to be those where parents have least input in the process. Not an obvious result.

I do favour the elimination of poor schools. Too much of the current system protects failing schools for too long for the benefit of staff and the LEA.
A crap school blights the lives of 100s of kids at a time, and to me that is intolerable.

Interruption is a valid point, but one that is given too much weight.
An interesting study done by the deparment of education a few years back showed that most schools that were threatened with closure for reasons such as falling rolls etc showed dramatic improvements across all measurable characteristics.

Givem the capital cost of a school, the obvious idea to steal from the private sector is a management buy out. Sack the staff and remove it from LEA control. Transfer it to an outfit with proper and rational incentives to improve.

I'm open minded on the nature of the organisation that does, this and it might well include central government staff.

Sad to say Rhubarb is sort of right. Actually pretty much every developed country has better education than us, and France is about as good as it gets.

Although I agree with bluejelly that private does not guaranteee "success" however you define that,
it does improve the odds.

My model of parenting is a bit like playing pinball. You affect the outcome, and you can get better at the game, but you never get control.

Dingle · 29/03/2006 16:52

Hijack alert!!! DominiConnor- Are you from the Kent borders by any chance?

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 29/03/2006 18:37

do favour the elimination of poor schools

What you mean close them???

edam · 29/03/2006 18:58

I don't know enough about schools to say whether the current system protects failing schools. But it is nothing new. Moved house a lot as a child and at one stage went to a very rough comprehensive. Big shock after my nice village church infants and middle schools! But nothing was 'done' about it - it served a largely working class area so it was fine, apparently, to have very low expectations and rubbish discipline which made it very difficult for teachers to teach. Moved again to an ex-grammar with a great reputation - even worse, frankly. Ended up going private - against my mother's principles but she couldn't leave me somewhere where I was being horribly bullied. SUCH a relief to go to an academic school full of well-behaved people.

That's why we moved to an area with good schools when ds was only seven months old. Because I don't want to have to rescue him from a cr*p school when he's older, or send him private - I want him to go to a good local school from the off. But of course, it is selection by property prices to a large extent.

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 29/03/2006 19:07

but the problem with moving to an area when your child is still young is that schools change! I attended a middle school in Bedford which was once deemed to be 'very good' - great reputation - by the time I left it was the pits (nothing to do with me I must add).

All it takes is a new headteacher, different staff etc etc and a school can completely change (either for better or worse). We're all on tenderhooks ATM about the current headteacher of DS1's excellent school leaving - she's been there for 15yrs and potentially the school standards could fall.

DominiConnor · 29/03/2006 19:19

Nope, in as much as I grew up at all was Herts/Essex borders, now am on the Essex edge of London.

Yes of course I means close schools that fall below some rock bottom standard. Frankly I'd burn them to the ground, salt the soil, and sow cobalt isotopes rendering the site unusable for millennia.

But given the cost of radiocobalt and school buildings, I'd content myself with merely sacking everyone involved.
You wouldn't have to do this much to inspire what Air Marshal Harris referred to as a "healthy terror".

Of course one has to make allowance for the quality of the input, for there are kids for whom any GCSE's at all represent a triumph.

Success would of course be rewarded, with money. Good money. You want the UK not to be overtaken by Nigeria, you're going to have to pay.

Of course this is impossible.
For a start this is not revenue neutral, and the Brits already resent paying as much for their kids education as to receive Sky Sports. Indeed enduring the torment of helping their kids learn to read would seriously impact their ability to watch premiership matches of teams they don't even support.

Second you can't shut schools. No matter how close to physically falling down, a level of wretchedness that looks more like malice than incompetence and open drug dealing in the playground.

The only criterion the British people will accept for shutting a school is to save money.
Even then they won't accept it if the school is near them.

Possibly the only way we could pull this off is to have daytime TV presenters talk of the risk of Cobalmite being found in schools we need to shut down. We could have the standard geeky media scientist trying to say that Cobalmite doesn't actually exist. He would of course be shot to pieces by an empathetic wholistic homeopathic healer who would point out that Captain Kirk said it existed, and so it must be a threat to our kids. Can the scientist prove it doesn't exist ?

I sound a bit cyinical don't I ?
You should have been at the lunch meeting I was at, where me & my partner were the token Brits. One advanced maths programme at Oxford is considering affirmitive action so that there are any British kids on it at all.

Dingle · 29/03/2006 19:28

spooky conicidence then DC. Thought I knew you from a bank that I used to work for!! Sorry!Wink

Flossam · 29/03/2006 22:27

DC, I wonder if you are near me?? I am getting out of here (I hope) this weekend to move to Bristol where our local school is an excellent RC school. Smile

edam · 29/03/2006 22:34

DC, have you ever been an expat? You don't talk like a British person, although you say you are. Wondered if you'd lived in America for a few years or something.
Using tautology for emphasis is an interesting technique, btw.

DominiConnor · 30/03/2006 09:07

I've lived & worked in other countries, though for 90% of it I've been along the M11/A11 corridor.
Born in Bishop's Stortford, which makes me reasonably British.

I do talk like a British person, some Americans compare me to Hugh Grant (but older, weighing more less rich, and not exactly famous)
I suspect I don't type like a British person having been chatting online for over 25 years, so I wonder if I type with an American accent. The writing I do for money uses another style altogether.

edam · 30/03/2006 13:53

Interesting that chatting online could lead you to have an American style! What's your job then? Being purely nosy...

DominiConnor · 30/03/2006 14:40

Currently mostly a pimp, (sorry, headhunter in global financial markets :), but a lot of my work has been IT, and I'm an occasional journalist. Am also writing a training course I'll be giving in the autumn.
I'd guess 25% of what I read is written by Americans, or by non native English speakers.

traceyinrosso · 30/03/2006 14:51

I have dilemma of being 1.5 miles from best school in town but in catchment for school in special measures. Have very bright child and don't want her to sink with the no hope attitude at catchment school but do I risk trying to get her into the excellent school but then have to take her there and back until she is 16/18 as no bus as well as one to nursery and one to primary school? Should I give up any hope of ever working again so I can do this or plump for a mediocre school with a bus service or send her to the special measures catchment school in walking distance and hope for a transformation!

morethan1 · 30/03/2006 16:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page