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OK so what would you REALLY do to get your kids into a 'good' school?

125 replies

shimmy21 · 24/03/2006 12:24

If you had the money or the opportunity would you...
lie about where you live?
practise a religion you don't believe in?
move house?
buy a second investment property?
bribe the panel?
appeal on spurious grounds?

or any better ideas?

OP posts:
goldenoldie · 26/03/2006 14:55

Date the headmaster..................

goldenoldie · 26/03/2006 15:00

Ops - sorry - we go private, so I don't have to.

Caligula · 26/03/2006 15:47

Were the ILEA's results worse than London's education results had been before? And worse then they are now?

Nightynight · 26/03/2006 16:18

bluejelly, I had the same highminded ideas as you, until my children spent a term at our local school. Smile

ScummyMummy · 26/03/2006 17:15

ILEA didn't have poor results, afaik.

Polgara2 · 26/03/2006 17:40

Charlene - avid David Eddings fan Grin. (She's a brilliant character in his books in case you've never heard of him!)

bluejelly · 26/03/2006 22:16

Well I went to an ILEA school -- the nearest one to my house as it happens with a very (ahem) mixed intake. I got straight A's. My brother did went to a different school (as mine wouldn't take boys) and got A's and B's My dd is at the local school with a very high percentage of free school meals etc, and is doing brilliantly. I think if kids are going to do well they will do well anywhere. And I think I benefitted hugely from not being in an elitest environment. Friends of mine who went to private/grammar school felt so much more pressure than me...
Well that's my experience anyway... Maybe will change my tune when my dd develops a gluesniffing habit at the age of 9, i will change my tune Grin

bluejelly · 26/03/2006 22:18

Caligula I would be interested to know what the ILEA's results were in comparison to now. The only thing is that so much more money has been pumped into education since Labour came into power that i'm not sure if would be a fair comparison. Any politicians amongst us who might know?

Polgara2 · 26/03/2006 22:25

Hah, a gluesniffing habit would be one of the lesser evils at this school!

batters · 27/03/2006 09:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DominiConnor · 27/03/2006 12:24

Hard to measure these things with any precision, given that in ILEA days working class kids were expected to leave school with no paper qualifications at all execept maybe City & Guilds, so they could fix the plumbing in the houses of their betters.

Also, hard to separate out the racist level of funding where even to this day the number of white kids at a school tells you more about whether it's
likely to be properly funded than any other factor.

The ILEA may have done a good job, given inadequate funding and the multi-party consensus that working class kids got what they were given, but London's results were markedly below the rest of the country. Today it's not much better, possibly even worse, but neither set up made it all the way to "good".

In principle though, the ILEA was a good idea. The Tory/Blair idea of self managing schools only makes sense when you look at the pig's ear that local authorities make of education. It is a solution born of despair.
Even the most vague analysis of the delivery of any service tells you that local monopolies with no competition or bankruptcy for poor performers is pretty much the worst system the human mind can devise. The fact that people who have the ability to read think it's even faintly rational makes you wonder if LEA's are run by either people with no brains at all, or smart people trying to undermine British society. The system is inherently flawed, and onre of the smartest people I know has found herself trying to make one work. She can't.

Parents are almost never in a position to make good judgements about schools, British parents especially so, given that we have stupidly bad levels of attainment in that generation relative to other countries.
How can someone who thinks Macchiavelli is a kind of pasta wander into a classroom, look at the "classwork" on the walls and form a view of the quality of history teaching. Could anyone ? Recall that teachers are now "guided" into marketing their schools.

Even smart parents find it hard to to get hard facts. Output numbers may fool Daily Mail readers, but even Labour MPs can see through them, even the ones who think Dawn Primarollo isn't the dumbest creature on God's green Earth.. You need to know what the input is to value the process.
My wife and I make part of our livings through the ability to read documents that vary from the badly written to the actively deceptive, and Ofsted reports are so bad you can't tell whether they are lies or incompetence. They are also usually out of date, making the exercise almost futile.

Even if you get past those hurdles, what can you do ?
Asking other parents has all sorts of problems, not least the huge time lag. The nearest school to me has a spectacularly bad headmaster, yet is loved by parents, especially his zero tolerance view on school uniforms. The pathetic academic results seem to be irrrelevant to them.
Took both of us to work out that even Ofsted, an organisation that tries to find the best in any school, seemed to think it had a bullying problem, but that was all right because the bullies were in uniform.

Normsnockers · 27/03/2006 12:28

Does anyone else find run of the mill Ofstead reports use "weasel words" or phrases and nigh on useless unless you have some sort of gifted interpretation skills.

The ones that state a school is excellent and oversubscribed I can understand but the others, very difficult to try and grasp what some of them are trying to say

donnie · 27/03/2006 14:15

DominiConnor, you are talking out of your arse: 'racist level of funding' - explain please. Please also elaborate on what you mean when you say that all working class kids at ILEA schools were not expected to get any qualifications.I went to an ILEA school in Haringey and was a working class kid on an estate - yes, the 'white trash' you enjoy slagging off so frequently, and I did well as dod most of my friends. What is your special insight into the ILEA system? you really do spout utter bollocks.

ToujoursMarine · 27/03/2006 14:21

ILEA did very well by working class children in my neck of the woods too thanks Dominic. Good range of all-ability schools in the borough and in adjacent ones. Families in my 22-strong year six group at primary sent their kids to over 15 schools, some grammr, mostly solid comps. There was real choice.
Now my borough is struggling so badly it is nearly bottom of the league tables nationally. Oh, and the demographic in my part of London is still overwhelmingly like donnie's was - white. So where are our brilliant grades and masses of extra funding then?

batters · 27/03/2006 14:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bluejelly · 27/03/2006 14:34

Good posts donnie and tjmarine.
I guess it depends whether you believe in comprehensive education or not. I believe that children of all levels/classes/backgrounds can and should be taught together. It worked for me, it's working for my daughter.

What did you mean by racist levels of funding DC?

goldenoldie · 27/03/2006 14:35

Donnie - I see you are getting wound up again. Why is it you end up being abusive on all the threads you join?

Can you not debate/discuss?

I went to an Ilea school in Haringey too. It was complete rubbish and had zero expectations of the 99% working class intake. In fact, it was only after I had left school that I was able to persue my academic interests.

It was a sink school then, and it still is now.

You are in an area with some half-decent state schools. Many of us are not.

donnie · 27/03/2006 14:49

well poor you golden oldie - but I was responding to someone else's post which was clearly rubbish. Sorry if you feel bitter about your education but I quite enjoyed mine!

as for being ' abusive on all the threads I join' - I'm on about 10 at present and no reports of abuse anywhere!!!! or maybe you didn't like the little hometruth I pointed out to you the other day when you called an exploited foreign nanny a 'doormat'.

goldenoldie · 27/03/2006 15:02

Donnie - I've only come across you on two threads and you have been abusive on both. Glad I've not found you on the other 8. Keep taking the tablets...............

Can we get back to the debate?

Uwila · 27/03/2006 15:07

Goldenoldie, I've had the same problems with Donnie on several occassions. She lashes out with insults, but fails to present facts to support her argument.

Donnie, you have taken Goldenoldie's words out of context. That is a rather dirty trick since the rest of the people on this thread don't know what she really said because they weren't on the nanny thread you have misquoted.

donnie · 27/03/2006 15:14

aah but t'was she who brought it up Uwila! so on her own head be it.
My beef is with another poster's comments on 'racist funding' and stating that ILEA schools had low expectations of white working class pupils, of which I was a prime example in teh late 70s-mid 80s.
And then I was attacked!!
it's an open forum laydees and gents....

bluejelly · 27/03/2006 15:15

Er yes I thought we were talking about schools...

Still don't know what you meant by racist levels of funding Dominiconnor

donnie · 27/03/2006 15:16

yas, I'm still waiting for that comment to be explained too.

DominiConnor · 27/03/2006 15:17

'racist level of funding' - explain please.
Go to Tower Hamlets, lots of coloured faces, schools is appalling repair. You really claim you don't see many such correlations simply walking down the road ?
To me "adequate" funding is where kids come out of years of British schooling at least able to speak clear English. If you are dropping money into "centres of excellence" for white middle clas kids whilst those from less privileged backgrounds leave school almost unemployable, your system is defective.

Please also elaborate on what you mean when you say that all working class kids at ILEA schools were not expected to get any qualifications.

Well they didn't get qualifications did they ?
Are you saying it was an accident ? Look at LEA adoption of the stupuidly patronising CSE system.

As for "white trash", me I was one. Although not ILEA, prison was a vastly more probable outcome for my year than university, somewhere around 8:1

I couldn't do A level biology because the LEA had decided we couldn't have a biology teacher at all. O level chemistry and physics was largely copying bits out of text books "supervised" by the technical drawing teacher. We only got computers because we basically stole them, quite ironic given my later career :)
The first system was supposed to go to the local posh kids school, and the resource allocation was clearly optimised for the benefit of middle class kids like I wasn't. We managed to screw with that a bit.

Before you start assaulting my position go and look at the stats for O levels under the ILEA.
There maybe some stats for A levels, but they may not be valid because the sample is so low.

OzJo · 29/03/2006 07:26

F**k me, reading this makes me REALLY glad that we emigrated to Australia...

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