PGCE

[CinnamonPreztel]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could advise me regarding PGCEs. Firstly, I am undecided which level to teach at. Both have pros and cons regarding the content of the job, so I am now trying to decide based on practical issues such as the availability of jobs and workload. I'm leaning towards primary but am concerned about lack of jobs. The subject I'd specialise in at high school is D&T (degree in graphic design) so I'm not sure about the jobs in this area. Advise greatly appreciated!

Go and visit schools, in both sectors, at least a week. Also be aware the government is moving towards more in school training rather than college based.

Number of vacancies depends on your area of the country, although Primary is very competitive in most areas. If you live near a big city or are prepared to work in a 'rough' school you will usually get a job. Look on TES to see the job situation, but most vacancies come out around May/June time. If you do DT you won't just be teaching graphics, I think you have to train in at least 2 DT specialisms.

You need to do some shadowing in a variety of schools, before deciding on the age group.

If you are a technology teacher, you will most likely have to teach more than your specialist area.

thank you for your feedback. Yes that is another reason I am leaning towards primary, not really comfortable training in other areas of DT. I currently work in a college and although I would like to do an FE PGCE I don't think this area of education is secure enough/has many prospects. I live in a small city- Chester- in North West of england :S

In primary, I'd suggest a GTP rather than a PGCE.

What's a gtp and it's advantage?

GTP is in its final year this year. You need to google Schools direct which is the replacement.

Sounds like a GTP with more emphasis on 'unqualified teacher status'!

(But still better than a PGCE because of the classroom management/strategy experience.)

I've just started my primary gtp this year. It's an on-the-job training route to QTS. I have to complete 360 hours of training and provide enough evidence that I've met the standards by the end of the year. I had a PGCE place too but chose the GTP because of the hands on element.

Good choice IMO. I did a PGCE and had no idea about how to manage a class. We have had a number of GTP students, who are well-mentored, well-tutored AND have classroom management experience.

(.......and we have employed every one of them!!!!!!)

Yeah, I was going to say GTP is on it's way out. Now on the job training will be provided in 'Teaching Schools'. They are only just at the stage of deciding which schools will be Teaching Schools so I think it will be a while before the new training route crystalises.

I believe the NW is one of the most difficult places to find a primary job. You might have to be prepared to go into Manchester or Liverpool.

I heard yesterday that GTP is gone from next year. Students will still be able to train in a school but the school is not required to pay them and can (at their own discretion) charge them the £9k they would have paid for a year a uni. Choose your school and who your mentor would be wisely!

The school would have had to apply to be a 'teaching school' though Littleblue and apparently there are only 100 in the country that have been approved to provide training in Sept 2012.

Technology jobs in secondary quite hard to get I have been told - that's not very accurate obv, just hearsay, but check it out on TES.

I did my GTP last yr and am amazed that it is being phased out, IMO and from my observation of PGCE colleagues it was a much better route - assuming of course that you had a good fit with school and mentor (some on my course did not and a number dropped out, tho not always for that reason).

Watch with the GTP routes (or replacement) if you want to ever work overseas, many countries don't accept them (apparently due to lack of theory). My Secondary PGCE was mostly based in schools, 6 weeks in uni then 12 week placement, then 6 weeks in uni again, then 14 week placement. I never felt I had a lack of classroom experience or management issues. In fact the GTP student that was employed to do my maternity leave had absolutely no classroom management skills (am sure he was in the minority though). Is important to look at individual courses, and definitely go into schools to see if it's for you!

Ahh I have heard of GTP but been told they are almost impossible to get on to due to the lack of schools with the money for trainee, is this the case? I'm really starting to panic I have called about 30 schools in my area (primary) to try to get experience but none have got back to me/told me they are full, and this is just for voluntary work :O Really didn't think I'd have a problem getting voluntary!

I was very hard to get on to the GTP but as has been said, you've now missed that route anyway. It is a little unclear exactly how the system that will replace it is going to work.

However, I think you are right, you will need experience to get accepted via any route. It is not a good time to be contacting schools as the first few weeks of term are always manic. Maybe try again later in term. You could think about offering to do something specific, such as supporting a class with their DT work across a term (if you have the flexibility to be able to do this).

Have you tried the independent and special schools in your area? They may be less unindated with requests for work experience.

I'd do a PGCE over a GTP (as I did, in fact), but as the GTP is being phased out-that's probably not a concern.

Definitely get some experience ASAP.

My DP has just started a secondary maths PGCE at Hope Uni (his friend travels in from the other side of Chester), he tried for two years to get onto a primary PGCE but even with his experience working as an unqualified teacher he wasn't able to get a place at any of the universities in the Liverpool area.
He's taken a funded (plus nice bursary) six month degree enhancement course as his first degree was in archeology.
To get the best chance of getting job at the end of training do your PGCE in a shortage subject - they also come with up to £20k bursaries which is very nice as well!

I think a PGCE is a far superior qualification.

There is plenty of hands-on teaching practice (well over half the course)

But there is also plenty of independent (of schools) pedagogical theory. A decent sized PGCE class size give plenty of opportunity for cross curriculal debate compare to relatively small GTP consortium cohorts.

The GTP is too heavily influenced by individual mentors and schools, even with the token second placements. It is also heavily open to abuse of trainee teachers.

A PGCE is independent of specific schools, is influenced by educational research, and has a strong awareness of the political developments.

The main reason for the GTP route is that you get a small salary while training. IMO, this is the only thing in favour of that route.

I did my PGCE last year and at our uni PGCE / GTP was the same except the GTP had to teach until the end of the school year.

I really struggled to get secondary work experience - do you know anyone working in a school? Could you offer to hear kids read at a primary school? The DT students seemed to struggle to get jobs, and lots got them outside of their specialism. They all had to teach a minimum of 2 DT subjects as well - it's not as bad as you think (says the Biology teacher teaching Physics!!).

I actually have a ds who has just started primary school.I felt awkward asking them so soon/if they said no I would feel awkward as I have to see them regularly lol so I rang and didn't mention my ds went there just asked about volunteering opportunities but they said they have people already doing it :S

I feel so depressed today, 1 school sounded really promising, a lady I spoke to basically said yes but had to confirm with head only to ring back saying an afternoon a week wasn't enough so they couldn't take me :S I can't offer more as I need £££ from my job in the college! Just rejection after rejection for voluntary work!

FourArms I didn't know it was possible to get teaching jobs outside of specialism? What did they teach? I'm not sure if my degree would allow me to do a pgce in Art (I was combined honours for 2 years then went single honours design)... Plus I am currently on an art therapy MA (long term plan is to combine art therapy with teaching). Or I'm not sure if it's possible to have French as a specialism in a primary school with a C at A level.

Arggh today is not a good day :(

Oh and about the special schools, i would actually prefer this over mainstream, my experience so far is working with people with learning difficulties/disabilities. However for the pgce at chester they request mainstream experience :S

I actually think it's really hard to say which is the better route, university-based or school-based training, as by definition you only do one or the other!

Let's just say the GTP suited me as it meant I earned a salary, not masses but more than on a PGCE, which suited my circumstances. I was also in oen school for most of the time which helped me plan my family life!

WRT to the training, mine was excellent, but I do agree (in fact I suggested as much) that school-based training could be open to abuse and if you didn't get on with mentor or school you would be in trouble.

I think it was harder work than PGCE but that's an analysis mostly from chats to PGCE students so hardly empirically sound. Luckily I am not a scientist!

BTW FWIW I teach French alongside German having doen French no further than A level (tho I did get an A; it was aeons ago tho!) Subject knowledge expansion I would recommend (sorry to talk like Yoda, it;s getting late)