Is it the norm to have tutors for primary school children these days?

[Sugarbeach]

I didn't think it was the norm, but it seems that it is the norm in some part of the country (or the world even). DD is progressing well and is happy at her school, she is about to start Yr 3 where the work is expected to be more formal and there will be a ramping up of the homework I imagine. I was going to just leave the school and teacher to do their job, and not intervene too much unnecessarily. I'm paranoid and thinking whether the majority of children get lots of tutoring at home, so that it seems to be a good school or whether it IS a good school.

So..
is tutoring the norm in your opinion?
Is it mainly done for struggling subjects, or to hot house, or for 11+, or to make up or the lack of teaching at school?

I'm interested to know, it's so different to my days, I feel like I've been living under a rock....

breadandbutter, let me quote you, paragraph by paragraph.

As I said, I think this thread is a bit patronising to those who pay tutors - when we nice well-educated middle class MN mums help our children academically all the time not just for an hour a week - we take them to museums, play intelligent games with them, read with them, discuss stuff with them,buy books for them etc etc. Not all kids grow up in homes like that. Tutoring is probably their best chance of levelling the playing field a little.

the parents who I know who hired tutors for 11+ and also at younger ages were all themselves of a fairly low standard of education - the kind who couldn't have helped their kids themselves. The 11+ forum is swarming with parents who speak v poor English themselves,having come to the UK as immigrants, but want their children to do as well or better than children of English-speaking parents.

I think you threw enough chips my way for them to land on my shoulder!

You say you are a teacher in your earlier post. I really hope you do not teach comprehension.

Being a first generation immigrant myself (came to the UK aged 19), I can say this. Growing up we didn't have enough to eat, that's how poor we were, I lived in squallor with the pavement littered by siringes on my way to school, I saw a lot of crime including shootings where I grew up...however my parents were able to send me and my brother to good schools that were free.

My parents were not pushy, it was society that was pushy in a dog eat dog sort of way. I was a very driven child because I didn't want to live like that anymore and was determined to lift myself out of poverty.

My children now have a middle class life with all its many benefits and priviledges. Although I class myself as quite pushy and have high expectations of them, I can see that they are not half as driven as I was.

Maybe they will be when they are older but my opinion is that there is nothing really driving them, apart from their mum!! Motivation has to come from within really.

It's just one perspective and something I have thought a lot about..

I don't have an issue with tutoring...I wasn't thinking about doing it, got no particular reason to, DD is progressing well, or the school tells me....and I have to trust them in what they say....I was just a bit surprised and now getting a bit paranoid and under pressure to if a lot of people are tutoring.....just having one of those "....but nobody told me about DD potentially needing a tutor ..." moments.

I think what gets me is the lack of transparency, and also, why the secrecy? I mean, how do you KNOW what the gaps are that need to be plugged? How do you know that the level (3b whatever) the school tells you is not enough to be on course for the selective schools, or is not to your expectations? For example, the school has not been formally learning tables in yr 2, but they have not identified it as an issue as such.....but I see it as an issue, so am now focusing on tables, regardless of what the school does.

I admire all those who have the time, talent, patience and the sort of relationship to be able to do all the educational stuff at home.....Yes, I presumed that the school does do the "heavy lifting" in DD's education, now I'm thinking it might be the parents that do. Unfortunately, it fills me with dread that I might have to step up with helping DD at home myself because I know it will be a battle every step of the way, as has been the case so far......

@orangeberries...I totally agree with you about motivation needs to come from within. It was coming from a poor background, fear of failure and being amongst high achieving peers at a grammar school which made no apologies for having high expectations that (subconsciously) drove me on I think. Sometimes coming from a poor background can make you hungrier for success. DD is middle classed and priviledged, and as you say, at the moment the motivation seems to come from mummy mostly.

Yes...our DCs will be competiting in the global market, but in the same game, to the same rules? Surely we have to think outside the box and do something different to what the Asians do in order to compete? Case in point.....look at the Beijing vs London Olympics opening ceremonies.

Random rambles....

And after this thread, if it wasn't the norm, it WILL become the norm in amongst MN's ......paranoia is infectious...but only if you are weak...

Sugarbeach actually this morning I was asking my DCs "Do any of your friends get tutored?...Do you feel a tutor would help you?.." etc etc.I am feeling wobbly about it and will feel terrible if she does not get her Russel Uni place. I will not be weak, I will not be weak.

I have encountered the usual patronising if childs bad at maths I just need to play counting games and count the leaves on the tree then it will all be fine.

I feel there is a lot of secrecy on daily politics yesterday it said 90%of educational outcome is down to the parents-yes a scary thourght!

Sugar beach i felt bit like you last year trust the school and she will progress.

shes not shes started year 2

on bottom table
lower reading level than most of the class.-even the younger ones.
maths a challenge but no additional help with that,
shortfall in some areas of teaching on last terms downgraded ofsted,

Me and hubby realise we need to step up to plug the gap.

Just wanted to add im definatly not a left leaning sahm mum.

I am a sahm mum but not a guardian reader.

most mums i know all seem to have the school will do it all attitude kids should be kids yet easy to say when childs not behind.

My child too is getting a very middle class upbringing. I had a very middle class upbringing despite parents being immigrants. I had no tutoring, at home or outside while at school and have a post graduate degree in science and a career. Average grades but motivation to 'get ahead' was enough for me. The motivation came from a personality that likes to compete. Hopefully there is something in the genes that will make my kids motivated.

My parents did not have the school will do it attitude but had the 'my children will do it' attitude. Not going to university was not an option.

I really do not know what the answer is. I dont want my child to be brought up with tuition after tuition even if she does not need them just to stay ahead of the game. But what is enough and what is extra?

Maybe I should stop reading these forums and do what I naturally feel. This is a bit like googling some symptoms on the internet to self diagnose... Not good at all.

Since my dss' school has published its maths policy on its website, educating parents in its teaching techniques so that they can help their children at home if they want without confusing them, has offered maths homework drop in sessions for parents to attend with their children so that parents who are still uncertain can see how to help their children when they get stuck with their homework and understand what their children are learning and how, published advice on phonics and how it is taught, advice on getting the most out of reading with your child and what questions you might ask them to further their comprehension, how it teaches handwriting, what websites and other free resources can be helpful for the work being covered, informs parents on its website what the children are supposed to be covering term by term and even week by week, asks for feedback, regularly invites parents into the school to see what and how their children are learning and get involved... I would say it is sending out a pretty clear signal that it expects parents to be aware of how their children are being taught in school and what they are doing and to be supporting the school's aims in a fairly active way where possible...

Silibili I agree I cannot believe I was questioning my DD when I know she is doing brilliantly. She knows she doing brilliantly. I will continue to do what we do with all our kids and stop reading this now

rabbitstew - that sounds great, and one of the massive benefits of schools communicating transparently to the outside world on their curriculum and teaching practices is that you know that they know internally what they ought to be doing.

Schools that don't manage to communicate to the outside world often don't have a clue what they are up to, IMO. They are not hiding information - the information doesn't exist

Rabbitstew. Hope that you are not assuming that all schools do the same as your ds'school. I know how I SHOULD be helping dd at home, I have an idealised image in my head of how the homework SHOULD pan out, the reality is, however very different, e.g. I ask dd about the book she's reading, I'd be lucky if she engages in a sensible discussion, getting her to sit down and do her homework is another battle etc. etc.....Given that some parents (including myself) can hardly keep on top of school communications....dd keeps reminding me that I got the mufty day wrong or I wasn't organised enough for some dress up day.....it is hardly surprising that even if, and that's a BIG IF, all the school info IS there, that many parents can digest it all and put it into practice.

In anycase, I have issues with how they teach primary maths but that's a separate thread altogether. Even now, I'm not sure if the school will be teaching proper grammar come year 3...that's another thing niggling in the back of my mind.

Another example. I recognise that DD's spelling needs to improve and she doesn't really write much, I've tried the usual thing of trying to get her to write lists, letters, diaries etc. she's not interested....but she reads lots, so I've left it in the hope that the reading would compensate somewhat, rather than make it into another battle....idealised vs reality.

Private tutoring for primary school children is only for parents who are insecure in their, and their chosen schools, ability to educate their children.

Tutoring for O and A levels is different but really, most reasonably educated adults should be able to help their primary age children achieve strong grades or indeed pass a secondary entrance exam

Music and sport lessons sit outside this imo

Oh FGS, that global economy India, China chestnut rears its head again!
They are primary age children.

1. Business in India is primarly done through English
2. It is a very rare non native speaker who can get to a strong level of business mandarin.

By all means ensure your children are well braced to embrace the challenge of globalisation but dont fool yourself that French and Maths tutoring is going to do this!

mindosa did you actually read the posters who gave their varying reasons for tutoring?

Or are you just too confident/educated/patronising for that?

Yes and many of them seem to be along the lines of 'because everyone else is doing it' That would indicate to me that they dont have confidence in their own or their schools ability.
And the global economy argument is nonsense in this respect. It has traction when discussing the type of languages taught and degrees taken by students but it does not apply to primary age children. A love of learning and engaged parents should be sufficient at that stage.

Sugarbeach - I don't think all schools should expect parents to plough through all the information they provide (most of it an educated parent wouldn't need to bother with, as it wouldn't tell them anything they weren't already aware of and hadn't already tried...), but I do think a school should make what it does transparent for those who are worried or interested and provide help, information and support for the worried parent, rather than let them go out and pay for private tutors because they don't actually know whether or not to be worried and don't entirely believe what the school is telling them. At least I can easily find out how my children are being taught maths if I want to and do something about it if I disagree with it - better than wondering what on earth is going on and why they haven't done x, y or z, yet, and feeling that I can't help them even if I want to, because I haven't a clue what their teacher is up to and don't want to confuse them further. And, given that they've published what they do for the world to see, I feel relatively reassured that the school does have a clear strategy on how the children's education will develop over their whole time at primary school, so feel far less concerned that random bits of their education will be missed through lack of any clear vision. So, I feel relatively educated in my belief that I don't need private tutors for my children.

silibili - no, nothing that I posted that you so kindly quoted above gives any indication that I believe all immigrants to be uneducated or unable to educate their children.

Maybe if I explain veeery slowly you will understand - if you don't speak English as a first language, no matter how brilliantly intelligent or educated you are, you are going to struggle when it comes to helping your child with their English - esp with their VR if they do the 11+. Thus last week, a very pleasant and very desperate mother PMed me off another site to beg me to tutor her daughter in VR for the 11+, because of posts I'd made about my own experience of (successfully) tutoring my own dd for this. (I said no, by the way, as I would not wish to be a professional 11+ tutor and dislike the system whereby advantage is paid for..but that's another story.) The relevance to the above is that the reason she asked me - and she is clearly middle-class enough to be able to afford to employ me! - is because, from her PM, English was very clearly not her first language. It is in no way derogatory, as you seem to assume, to expect first-generation immigrants to have less-than-perfect English skills; it is just part and parcel of coming from another country (unless that country is an English-speaking one of course!).

It is quite possible to be an immigrant and educated, or an immigrant and middle-class, or an immigrant and wealthy; conversely, some immigrants are poor, working class and uneducated.

The assumptions you made about my views on immigrants were clearly reflections of your own complexes - but pretty offensive to boot.

In future, you would look less idiotic and be less likely to get completely the wrong end of the stick, if you avoided jumping to unfounded conclusions about posters' lifestyles, colour, background etc.

I think tutoring is a business - whether it's Kumon or individual tutors, it is in their interests to persuade you that your child will fail if you do not use them. The reality is that tutors do not know your child they way you do or even the way their class teacher, who sees them everyday, knows them, and most tutors will add very little value, relative to the cost.

I do understand why many parents feel they need to supplement what their children learn at school- because the reality is that not all primary schools are outstanding and even outstanding teachers can find it hard to ensure every child in a class of 30 achieves their full potential. So there often is room for children to progress beyond what they learn at school, in academic as well as non-academic subjects.

But I think most parents are much better placed to supplement this than most tutors. Parents do need to have confidence in their own abilities - even 11+ tutoring is not magic, it's only aimed at 11 year-olds, after all.

Bread
Parents do need to have confidence in their own abilities - even 11+ tutoring is not magic, it's only aimed at 11 year-olds, after all

Exactly the most sense I have read on this thread

You are right breadandbutterfly. 11+ should not be rocket science. Afterall, I passed it without tutoring many years ago....and I'm sure I'd say the same if I was looking back, having helped my own dd pass and came out the other side....however, from where I am at the moment, having briefly delved into the world of 11+ recently, there is so much info, it all looks pretty scarey and a bit of a minefield to me....

mindosa people have given many more reasons than global competition.

They have explained that their DC were struggling. They have explained that their school is not good...

But you carry on with your high handed dismissals.

Obviously, everyone is just an idiot.

Sugarbeach - Have faith!

I know what you meant,from tutoring my own dd - people on 11+ sites referred to books or practice papers your dc 'had' to have done,as some sort of holy grail. But actually, there are no secret 'keys'. All dcs really need to do well in VR is to read widely and think quickly; the former needs no tutor and the latter cannot really be taught. Maths can be taught, as topics go up to the end of the year 6 curriculum, so includes all KS2 maths, which most kids at state schools will not have covered at the start of year 6 - but KS2 maths materials are widely available. There are no secrets here either.

For me,apart from the maths, the main things I needed to teach my dd were 'soft' skills, like accuracy, reading the question properly, setting out work neatly, keeping an eye on the time... things that will be useful in all future work and that appeared never to have been touched on in her average state primary. For this reason alone, I'm v glad I spent time helping my dd - those soft skills are always going to be important. But there is nothing there that any parent can't cover better than a tutor.