Can a school get funding for an 18 year old to do an 'extra' sixth form year?

[chives22]

Because this is the positon we are in with my DS needing to complete 1 A level and retake two modules for other A levels. The School are saying they do not get funding for this. Friends' children have repeated Y12 - something DS was not allowed to do when we asked last August after his unexpectedly low AS results. If it makes any difference DS has SEN as he is on the autisitic spectrum although he does not have a Statement.

I think education is free till 19 but needs to be full time. Did the school suggest that he could pick up some other courses to fill his timetable?

I don't think school's can but FE and 6th form colleges can.

Noblegiraffe - the School are only permitting him to complete the A level because they withdrew tuition from him last year after his E grade AS result. We argued it was discriminatory because DS's low grade was due to anxiety and panic in the exam due to his autism. After we made a claim to the tribunal (which is still 'in the process') the School said he could return this Sep to complete the A level. However, they are refusing to allow him to repeat the lessons for the A level modules in his other subjects that he needs to retake. They are also saying that 'they are not in the position' to be able to offer Ds any SEN support. So I wanted to know the funding position to determine how unreasonable they are being !

Titchy - that does seem to go against the experience of a couple of friends' DDs - although they were 'repeating' Year 12, the effect was that they had an extra year of free education.

My school has certainly allowed a 3 year sixth form. But like I said, I think it needs to be full time, so the students who resat Y12 qualified, but your DS won't if he is only sitting one A2 and resitting a couple of modules (which tuition isn't usually offered for).

It's because he has completed A Levels. Education is free up to 25 as long as youhave not completed a 'Level 3 Qualification', ie 3 A Levels or the equivelant.

I'm finding it all rather confusing! We wanted DS to repeat year 12 but the school said 'no' because it 'wasn't something they still offered' although they certainly have done in the past. DS therefore had to go into year 13. Then at the very start of term they withdrew Maths A2 tuition from him leaving him with only 2 A levels. They didn't want him to return to do the Maths this Sep (we were told he could go 'somwhere else'). But after we claimed discrimination (because of his autism DS would not/could not move schools) and took it to the tribunal, the School said he could return to do Maths. But now the School are telling us that DS will be an 'external student' and that we must 'clearly understand' that they will 'not be in a position' to provide him with any SEN support'. So I wanted to know what the funding positon is.

Sashh - what you say implies the School would get funding. DS hasn't been able to complete 3 A levels, as the School withdrew tuition for the third subject.

I've had a quick google but it seems immensely complicated. Perhaps you should try posting this on the TES forum where heads of sixth form who know about this sort of thing might be hanging about.

Fwiw, my school would not allow a student to continue to A2 with an E at AS, as there is a good chance that the student would not be able to cope with the more difficult content. A2 maths builds on AS content and the modules are more difficult - C3 especially. Looking at my A2 results this year, students tended to do better in their AS modules than they did at A2. Are you aware there is a very good chance your DS will fail to achieve a grade at A2? I suspect that the sixth form want to enter him as a private candidate because they don't want this fail affecting their results.

noblegiraffe - I agree entirely that the 'danger' of DS getting a low/no grade at A2 Maths was why they withdrew tuition. The School used all the reasons you have that DS would do worse at A2 than AS. However, we felt they were ignoring the efect of his disability on his results - he has an anxiety disorder connected to his autism. His predicted grade for AS was a B. He retook all his AS papers in Y13 (and we employed a tutor) and he got an A grade. His tutor taught him M1 (a paper the school refused to teach him as part of his A2) and he got an A in that in June.

Similarly his AS results in his other subjects last year were way below his predicted A grades. In 3 out of 4 retakes of these subjects he improved to an A grade. However, once again on papers he took for the first time in June he got D grades, below what he was predicted.

The trend is for DS to markedly improve on sitting a paper for the second time and that is why we want him to be allowed to have this extra year and it seems reasonable because his performance in exams has been affected by his disability. But the School seem to be claiming there are no funds to enable him to do this or to provide him with SEN support for the Maths they have agreed to teach him.

Funding for sixth forms has been cut dramatically so it is possible that there is no longer any capacity for students to repeat years - from what I've read on the internet it's also possible that students who resat years previously were also unfunded, through the goodwill of the sixth form.

The funding arrangements seem to change all the time, so you need to speak to someone who is up on the latest rules. I think the TES forum might be your best bet, or phoning a local college?

I am a Head of 6th Form. Last year, we had one girl who had to drop out towards the end of Year 13 (family issues) having done enough to complete Art A2, but not her others. She came back for a further year to complete the other A Levels this year. This year, one girl has had to drop out, again, for family reasons, and will be starting Year 13 again in September. Funding was/is not an issue. As long as the students are under 19, education is free. In the case of the girl who completed 2 A Levels this year, she was registered as a full time student, but did not actually come into school every day. We also set her up with a work placement one day each week, which gave her invaluable experience and benefited her when she applied to UCAS. She was also able to continue claiming EMA.

Hope that helps.

Thank you noblegiraffe and EvilTwins for your experiences as a Head of Sixth Form and especially clarifying the funding position. It makes sense to me as the neighbour's 18 year old DD who has completed a 2 year sixth form and got 3 A levels, is now going on to a one year course at a further education college and that is funded.

Sadly it seems that, as ever, the School is trying to make it as difficult as possible for my DS to successfully complete all his A levels, despite being aware of all the difficulties he has as a result of his autism.

EvilTwins - can you comment on the School's statement that they are 'not in a position' to provide DS with any SEN support? Surely the School still has a duty to meet his SEN. They say he will only receive the same teaching and support as other students and the Head adds (in bold) that DS 'will be expected to complete all homework'. The School knows full well that homework has been an issue for DS who due to his anxiety does not always take in all the lesson material and also finds it hard to talk to teachers about what he doesn't understand, which increases his anxiety.

Your School sounds very supportive of students with difficulties EvilTwins. We also seem to be facing a battle getting the School to support DS in making a UCAS application this term....

It sounds very much as if the school
Is being deliberately difficult. There certainly should be no issue with UCAS and the fact that they're not willing to support him in that us awful. AFAIK, if he is already at the school, and provision is in place for his SEN, then there is no reason to assume that this would change if he was doing a 3rd yr of 6th form. I don't believe it's that unusual to do a "yr 14" year. The official census documents I have to fill in has a column for Yr 14 students. Also, 6th form funding is based on a census taken in October, so as long as DS is on roll then, the money will be provided. The YPLA money (16-19 bursary) will be based on LAST year's yr 13 figures so DS being a yr 14 student won't make a difference. Is there any reason why the school is being so difficult?

My DS's school has just set up a foundation year sixth form, and I have known several students take more than 2 years in sixth form, usually for health reasons.

chives

Sorry to say this but it sounds like your son is not wanted at the school. They sound like they want to get rid of him any way they can.

And that is crap, probably illegal and probably due to their possition in the league tables.

I know it is very dificult for someone on the AS to move/change but do you think he might be better at a college?

sashh - oh yes - I am certain that my DS would be better off at another school/college, but he would drop out rather than move. Over the past (difficult) year I have tried to get him to think of going somewhere else but it's not something he will even talk about. And due to his mental health issues I have had to back off. And that what makes the School's treatment of him so appalling. It's difficult for him to be there, but he can't face even thinking about going somewhere else.

EvilTwins - I think the School are being so difficult because we continue to challenge their treatment of DS in terms of support and the withdrawal of the Maths tuition. We will not agree with them when they insist they are acting in DS's best interests. We challenged their view that DS was incapable of achieving a good grade in Maths - and we proved he could with support. DS was even been told last Sep that he should give his goal to study engineering at Uni. Which is why we are concerned about them providing an appropriate academic reference for DS. Then as sashh says there's the School's concern about league table position - DS is at a grammar school that is in the top 10 for state school A level results. ( I think they may be at the very top this year... )

But my huge question is how to get the School to fulfil its responsibilities towards DS. We worked our way through the complaints procedure and insisted the School should hold a Governing Body Complaints Appeal Panel. They found in our favour and said DS should be allowed to do a Y14. Head said he wouldn't follow this. We put in a claim of disability discrimination to the tribunal. On receiving it, the Head then said DS could return to do A2 Maths. ( Our claim is still being considered by the tribunal because there is a question over whether it can be heard 'out of time').

So we are now in a position with School beginning next week with DS only being allowed to study A2 Maths with no SEN support, and not being allowed to go to lessons for modules in his other 2 subjects that he needs to retake. He is an 'external' student with no form tutor or other mentor, which he needs. Actually, DS isn't meant to go in til 18th Sep - the School taught him A2 Maths for a fortnight last year before they withdrew it, and he's not allowed to repeat that tuition! It's entirely inappropriate for Ds to start 2 weeks after his (new) peers given his social and communication difficulties.

We have again contacted the chair of governors but he hasn't come back to us, bar a 'holding' response. I'm unsure what to do now... Is there any scope for contacting OFSTED regarding SEN at the School - though I know they can't get involved with DS's personal situation.

I don't think OFSTED would/could do anything here. Is it an LA school? If so, they are probably the best people to approach next. The school is being utterly unreasonable- the arguments they are coming up with are invalid. Where in the country are you? Perhaps evidence from other local schools would help to show the school that you know what they're saying is wrong.

I am in a London borough. It is a voluntary aided school - so presumably that means LA? I did contact them when the School withdrew A2 Maths tuition last Sep but was told that the School was entitled to teach DS what it saw fit. I spoke to the SEN department of the LA but they said they could only get involved if DS had a statement.

I don't think the Head would be at all swayed by evidence from other local schools that what the School are saying and doing is wrong. He is convinced that as a top performing super selective grammar the School is entitled to 'deal' with DS as they think fit, and that over-rides SEN and disability legislation. And even though I now know there is funding, it is apparent that the School don't want to obtain it for DS to do a Y14.

In theory the Tribunal could deal with all this but we are months away from a hearing, and even that presumes the tribunal will decide to hear our claim out of time.

It all sounds incredibly stressful.

You said that he was very successful with a tutor. If you have the money I would try that route with tutors at home. Much less stressful for him and you have control of the situation.

We certainly allow students to do three years if necessary. Just so long as they are not over 19 as Evil said. Students are allowed to resit Year 12 or Year 13 depending upon their circumstances and as long as I can see the benefit. I have taken a number of SEN students over the years with the view that they are a three year project in order to complete coursework heavy subjects. I have not taken on an SEN students who needs a lot of support for 3/4 heavy subejcts.

Even in a school environment I have never managed to get anyone from the SEN dept to support a student - no money/funding from borough and not enough staff.

oh and students do need a full timetable for the school to be paid. It would equate, for your DS, for 1A2 and 2AS. The funding formula now uses retention and success as part of the calculation

Yes pippop - we are putting in as much private tuition as our budget will stretch too - but really DS needs the tuition in school (which is about 6 hours a week per subject) and then the tutor (which is an hour per subject per week) to go through what he is finding difficult.

happilyconfused - we are quite happy for the School to arrange a full timetable for DS - but they won't...
When you said you couldn't get anyone from the SEN dept to support a student, do you mean one to one support? We are not looking for that for DS - it is more a matter of staff being aware of his difficulties and communicating properly with us if classwork and homework become an issue. In DS's Y12 we weren't even told when he failed to complete assessments and mocks because he became too anxious. It is frustrating because if we had known we would have put a tutor in place and hopefully avoided his disastrous AS results.

I am also strugggling to understand the lack of support in the sixth form for those with SEN. It appears that there is much more support at Uni's through their disability services and the funding from Disabled Student's Allowance. But DS has to get through his A levels first with very little support - bar us paying for private tuition.

If you know who his maths teacher is, then he doesn't need specialist SEN support to get that information, you can just communicate directly with the teacher? Ask for an email if he's missing assignments and so on?

Yes I agree communication is key and we will be asking for an email now we have been told who his teacher is. School won't let him return for A2 tuition in his other 2 A level subjects before he does retakes so DS is a very part time student at 6 lessons a week!