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Original poster

Wise MN's/Teachers-URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! Sorry long rant!

19 replies

jollymum · 13/03/2006 16:48

My sister's just rung up to tell me that her daughter, who's 11 has not got into the Junior school of her choice. They have three catchment schools by her and she has landed her third choice, (which she didn't want anyway) and she only put it down because it's two minutes away.Now, being PC, it's not a great school. My sis went in to complain about stuff, No1 she has a daughter NOT a son, she was sent two letters, one of congratulations and the other saying she hadn't got in! Lastly, she mentioned to the secretary that was she aware that the kids were blatantly "lighting up" in the playground[ shock]

Her first choice is an all girls school and it's a bit who you know, we think.(not private, just a good school) The school secretary's child is in, my niece isn't. The mums at the Junior School go on about things their kids do, my sis doesn't drive but my niece is really clever, top in everything and does some out of school stuff. She also has two sisters that would go on there when they're older, so my sis is committed to the school. How does she put "politely" that the other school is rough as hell, etc etc without being not PC and that it's a Catholic school. Where I live you have to be a staunch Catholic etc and my niece isn't even christened!

Please help my sis appeal, carefully, politely and very very winningly!!! Thanks, oh wise ones, I leave it to you!Oh, she has to appeal by Monday next!

OP posts:

julienetmum · 13/03/2006 16:57

As far as I am aware the ony grounds for appeal are if places were not allocated in accordance with the school's published admissions criteria.

For a Catholic school this is likely to be something like siblings first, baptised Catholic, church attendance and catchment.

pootlepod · 13/03/2006 17:00

So, just to check, is it the one she's got into that's a Catholic school i.e. the third one? And the first choice wasn't a Catholic school?

Original poster

jollymum · 13/03/2006 18:21

nvnv

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Original poster

jollymum · 13/03/2006 18:24

Sorry, ignore that scribble. Just did a long post and it wouldn't come up Anyway, to recap, she wants her first choice school. No 3 choice is really rough and it's Catholic. How would a Catholic school offer a non-Catholic child a place when they're third on the list anyway? She hasn't even been christened. My niece is really bright, so this is not an anti-catholic rant, it's a crappy, rough school and my sis is desperate for a carefully worded appeal to help her

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MrsWobble · 13/03/2006 18:34

I think you sister needs to look at the appeals procedure - she should have been sent details with the letter from her LEA. I think that you can only appeal if you think that the criteria for allocating places were not properly applied - just because she would prefer school number 1 is not a reason for an appeal to be granted.

I have to say, based on the information you have given I would not rate her chances - I have no experience of this but she has been allocated a school for which she expressed a preference, albeit not top, and it's her nearest school.

If the Catholic issue was that important to her, then why did she put it on the list? If she wanted single sex then why put a co ed school on the list?

I've just been through the whole secondary transfer thing and have a great deal of sympathy for your sister but ultimately not everyone will get their first preference - that's inevitable when some schools are oversubscribed.

Original poster

jollymum · 13/03/2006 19:26

But it's not her preferred school, she only put it down because they HAD to put three down or else. She wrote reams of stuff on the form when choosing school about her daughter and that a single sex school was her first choice. There are three catchment schools are all equally based in choosing potential, her nearest school therefore doesn't count as her choice. Surely she can appeal on the grounds that she doesn't feel a catholic school is appropriate or that the school results (she's checked and they're crap) don't seem to be the best choice for a really bright child. Maybe she could hint she's pagan (no offense pagan people} and that she will withdraw her child from every religious thing at school. She must have the right to do this, I think? She's not being arsey, the school is crap and she had equal three choices. Why don't they want my niece?She's be an asset to the school, keep their league tables up etc.

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Celia2 · 13/03/2006 19:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

jollymum · 13/03/2006 19:44

No, no reasons given and she has the letter refusing entry. Could her present head have any influence perhaps?

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annh · 13/03/2006 19:44

Jollymum, I'm a bit confused by some of your post but as I understand it you feel your niece should have gotten into the first school based on the fact that she would be an asset to the school etc. Unfortunately, if these are all state schools to which she is applying, a whole bunch of other factors such as catchment area, siblings etc will come into play and it could be that no matter how much the school would like your niece, they simply don't have enough spaces. The popular schools are always over-subscribed.

The fact that her third choice is a Catholic school doesn't mean that they can't offer your niece a space. Funnily enough, most threads on here are from the opposite angle of people who are not Catholic wondering how they can get their child into a Catholic school! Typically, non-Catholics don't often get offered spaces as the faith schools are generally perceived as better. It's shame that this particular school is so poor. I'm sure your sister does have the right to withdraw her from religious activities at school but don't think this will carry any weight in an appeal. They probably have other kids who also don't take part in religious events.

I don't also think you can appeal on the grounds that she only put the school down on the basis that they had to put three schools on the form. Presumably, if she had only put two schools down and failed to get into either (as has happened) she would have been allocated this third school anyway. Am I right in thinking that these were the only three schools which she could put down and there were no other possibilities? If there were other possibilities she presumably would have listed them instead?

All I can do is reiterate what Mrs Wobble said about checking the appeals procedure really carefully but I wouldn't hold out a great deal of hope.

Original poster

jollymum · 13/03/2006 19:47

Anyway, she had to put three choices down as there were three "catchment" schools". Round here, you have one catchment school and usually get in. In Northampton, it seems, it's different.All she wants is a good school for her child, sad isn't it when you can't get what you want. It's not like she's battling to get into private schooling (god, there's a complete ants nest!), she just wants a good school for her child ( and further two girls).

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Original poster

jollymum · 13/03/2006 20:31

bump!!!

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Original poster

jollymum · 13/03/2006 21:35

OMG now it's urgent. Court of Mumsnet, help please. My sis has till tomoroww to file the plea. The form just says oversubscribed. How come a kid that lives further away has got in then? She could have gone to the nearer school too. My sis even put on the form that my niece has no religion because she will make her mind up when she's older. How on earth did a catholic school accept her then!?!

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LIZS · 13/03/2006 21:44

No direct experience of applications at this age. Maybe the other child has a sibling in situ, other link to the school such as a childcare issue, SEN for which this school has facilities or staff etc. tbh that is not really relevant to your sister's plea, unless you can prove that the published criteria were not followed in your dn's case. By putting the Catholic school down it could have been interpreted as a satisfactory option , intentional or not.

Is there any chance that someone who has got a place will turn it down , in which case your dn might be on the waiting list ?

rickman · 13/03/2006 21:44

You can appeal for whatever reason you like, although the more substantial reasons you have the better.

I put down 2 choices for my dd's junior school, we got offered a place at the second choice school but I wanted her to go to the first choice school. You can ask for her name to be put on the waiting list at the first school and hope that not all of the places that have been offered are taken up. You can accept the place you have been offered in the meantime, but put in an appeal for the first choice school.

Try and back up the appeal with some solid facts on why your niece should go to the first school. I had valid reasons for wanting my dd to go to the first school, my ds was already attending a school on the same site, all her friends were going there, I had just seperated from my partner and she had had a lot of upheaval, it took her a long time to settle into her infant school and I felt taking her away from her friends would be detrimental.

In the end we got offered a place a couple of days before the appeal was due to be heard. Huge sigh of relief all round.

Hope some of that helps.

Original poster

jollymum · 14/03/2006 15:41

bump

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Normsnockers · 14/03/2006 15:51

I'm guessing that the catholic school accepted her as they need bums on seats for funding purposes and they don't sound like the sort of school that would be oversubscribed.

You say that a child who lives further away has been accepted but this is only relevant if door to door distance is one of the school's selection criteria. Check their literature again to see what their selection criteria are but if the other child had a sister already at the school this may have been an even stronger selection criteria.

rickman · 14/03/2006 21:47

Were mine and Lizs replies no good then?

georgia73 · 15/03/2006 07:25

I can really sympathise with your sister...its agonising to deal with school issues..and this must be particularly upseting as its your dn's whole school future at stake.
All I can add is...What is the exact admissions criteria? Because the school isn't selective...intelligence or sats results won't come into it...the school won't have been allowed to choose pupils based on this.
I suspect the criteria would have been ...distance from school and siblings already in the school. But check and see.
Please let us know what happened.
Rickman..glad to see it worked out for you in the end...You gave some very good reasons...perhaps jollymum could use some of these in her appeal.

breadandroses · 15/03/2006 19:12

Hang on... if yr neice is as bright as you say then she'll do fine in her third choice school, while bumping up their results. What's wrong with this?

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