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Education

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Does Michael Gove have the support of the public?

98 replies

Machadaynu · 20/08/2012 10:51

Michael Gove, Minister for Education, seems to me to be a liability.

If he isn't selling off playing fields and accidentally telling people he has sold much fewer than he actually has, he is introducing a dead number system into the maths syllabus, allowing private firms to run schools promoting their beliefs, allowing unqualified people to teach and making a string of other controversial decisions.

I am now at the point where the more I learn about him and his decisions, the less respect I have for him. He seems to me to be entirely out of his depth, and unable to take advice - admittedly this isn't a trait unique to him in this government.

Am I the only one? If he didn't have power he'd be funny.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 22/08/2012 09:42

Why oh why did the journalists and politicians pick out the cake decorating course that only 40 students took and not actually talk about the courses that lots of students are taking to make up the headline figure?

Bloody teacher and state education bashing.

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2012 17:29

So, Gove today 'He said he had not been expecting a fall in grades, adding that these new GCSEs in maths, English and ICT, had been brought in by the previous Labour government.'

Gove in Feb 'There are going to be some uncomfortable moments in education reform in the years ahead. There will be years, because we are going to make exams tougher, when the number of people passing will fall.'

Gove is surprised that the new tougher GCSEs caused pass rates to fall? And apparently exam boards and OfQual came to the conclusion themselves that grade boundaries should be increased in order to make the pass rate fall, with no hint from Gove whatsoever?

Liar liar pants on fire.

epeesarepointythings · 23/08/2012 18:08

And what's all this I'm hearing about mid-year grade boundary changes? Apparently people sitting the exam in January needed to get fewer marks to get a C grade than people sitting it in May/June. How can that be reasonable? Shock

Astr0naut · 23/08/2012 19:00

They've changed the boundaries by 8 marks. WE've been royally shafted and I'm gutted, absolutely gutted, for the kids who would have had a C or an A or an A*, if they'd left them alone. Fucking AQA.

epeesarepointythings · 23/08/2012 19:33

And of course this is nothing at all to do with Michael Gove's indirect pressure on exam boards by constantly slating GCSEs.

Every time I think I can't hate the man any more, I'm proved wrong. I fear for my children's education.

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2012 19:39

Don't forget his pressure on exam boards by saying that he's going to only allow a single exam board to administer each of his new O-level style exams and they'll have to compete for it.

Any wonder that exam boards are trying desperately to make it look like their exams are the most rigorous?

Itchyandscratchy · 23/08/2012 19:45

What the hell is wrong with starting the course with a warning that it will be much harder this year to get a C?

Why let us teach to certain standards all year, let the students know what their work needs to look like to get C, use exemplar material provided by the exam boards and use mark schemes in all our AfL and then take the rug from under us - and the poor students - by changing the grade boundary by 10 marks (usual variance is 1-3 marks each year) with no warning???

epeesarepointythings · 23/08/2012 20:05

noble I have nothing against single exam boards - I'm from Holland, where there is one exam board, run by the state, for all subjects at all levels. No competition, and no-one makes money out of it - the people who work there are teachers or former teachers, and they work on civil service salaries. It works well.

I have objections to the way this is being done - mid-course for some, mid-final exam year for many, ill-planned, ill-thought out, with several cohorts of young people just thrown on the scrapheap. Changes like this take planning - none of this should come into effect until the year, say, last year's Year 6s sit their GCSEs. That way everyone knows what they are working towards, can plan their syllabi and their teaching.

But Gove doesn't want that - he just wants to make teachers look bad. Twat that he is.

Itchyandscratchy · 23/08/2012 20:11

Spot on, eepeasarepointyhings

Itchyandscratchy · 23/08/2012 20:12

Oo sorry, one too many es

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2012 20:19

Don't get me wrong, epees, I think a single exam board would be good too. But because the Tories would be loathe to nationalise exam marking and close down AQA, Edexcel et al, they will be, from what I have heard, allocating each subject to different exam boards, so Edexcel might get maths, AQA English, and some exam board that has pissed Gove off gets Textiles.

The exam boards know this is coming and I suspect that this has influenced their behaviour regarding forcing falling results this session. Yet Gove says that their actions have nothing to do with him and his banging on about the need to combat grade inflation and improve standards.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 23/08/2012 20:22

To respond to the point about Michael Gove's wife, she is a journalist. I expect she sent the au pair to the sports day because she was working. I sent my nanny to sports day for the same reason. Clearly this a crime in MN land. Who knew?

epeesarepointythings · 23/08/2012 20:32

Karlos those of us who are still on this thread have moved on... FWIW I couldn't care less about Michael Gove's domestic arrangements, or about what he's like as a person. I just think his actions speak for themselves.

And noble I agree that Gove's approach to single exam boards is as fucked up flawed as everything else he is doing.

Quip · 23/08/2012 21:16

Actually, I think Gove has done a lot of good things, and I'd vote Tory just to keep him as education secretary.

The ebac stops schools getting away with fobbing working class kids off with worthless so-called vocational qualifications.

The introduction of UTCs has vastly improved the life chances of the kids that have attended and gives hope for the future of manufacturing in Britain.

The introduction of free schools and the growth of academies is a vote of confidence for teachers, that they know best how to run a school and how to teach what a child needs to know.

The abolition of the utterly dull IT curriculum, and the fact that kids will be taught computing again, gives me hope for the next generation of computer programmers.

I know I'm going to be flamed as the education board always seems full of incensed leftie Gove-haters, but actually, I really respect the man.

orangeandlemons · 23/08/2012 21:22

I teach Textiles. Why would that get shoved to a crap exam board? Hmm Just because Gove is a twat and doesn't understand that the Textile design industry is one of the biggest industries in the UK which brings in a lot of revenue for his crap policies.

epeesarepointythings · 23/08/2012 21:28

But Quip will you at least agree that the introduction of the ebac (judging children midway and towards the end of a course on standards brought in before they had a chance to make an informed choice about their course) was ill thought out? It's the way he is doing everything now, now, now without proper planning ahead that makes me truly suspicious of his motives. If he's genuine about wanting to improve education he should do it properly.

We'll have to differ on free schools and academies - they are not about trusting teachers, they are about handing over absolute control to the Secretary of State for education, and about privatisation by the back door. Given how previous privatisations have worked for us, the punters (think rail, gas, water...) I am actually not at all relaxed about schools being run for profit. The profit will be made by short-changing our children, because that has been the case with all privatisations in the UK. The consumer gets shafted.

rabbitstew · 23/08/2012 21:45

Yes, but the consumer gets shafted for a profit, epees, so that's alright, then. Wink

rabbitstew · 23/08/2012 21:47

ps they aren't supposed to be being run for a profit, yet, are they? That's phase 99 of the 99-phases-in-one-electoral-term plan, isn't it?

rabbitstew · 23/08/2012 21:50

Shortly followed by an announcement that "state" schools will shortly be permitted to charge top-up fees to parents for extra services, if they are not happy with the basic education provided. These extra services will of course include all sorts of things that most parents want for their children.

clam · 23/08/2012 22:24

Just checked ds's IGCSE maths result. He scored 81 percentage uniform marks. According to the January grade boundaries, that would have got him an A*.
In June, he got an A.
Thanks, Gove.

cricketballs · 23/08/2012 22:33

ok - i will take each point in turn....

The ebac stops schools getting away with fobbing working class kids off with worthless so-called vocational qualifications.

this has never been the case! The ebacc was suddenly thrown into the mix despite the NC not having a language at KS4 as compulsory for many years and schools told that Every Child Matters and therefore the curriculum offered needs to be suited to each child - many did not want a language and as it wasn't compulsory schools didn't force the issue to stay in line with government thinking. Vocational qualifications have their place and yes, I will admit have been over used to ensure that students gained 5 A*-C it is not at the expense of GCSE subjects, e.g. if a student would never get C in science GCSE why put them through the misery of gaining a F when they can get a BTEC? But every school I have worked at will enter a student in GCSE if they could get a C or above

The introduction of UTCs has vastly improved the life chances of the kids that have attended and gives hope for the future of manufacturing in Britain.

if only this was true.....there is very little manufacturing left in Britain so the statement that UTCs are suddenly going to breath life into this area is wishful thinking

The introduction of free schools and the growth of academies is a vote of confidence for teachers, that they know best how to run a school and how to teach what a child needs to know.^

when teachers rather than commercial enterprises can run them then yes - this is not the case in reality

The abolition of the utterly dull IT curriculum, and the fact that kids will be taught computing again, gives me hope for the next generation of computer programmers.

If you look at the later press releases which have been hidden away, the new ICT NC curriculum is due out in 12 months......only a small portion is going to be based on computing

Extrospektiv · 25/08/2012 01:22

I haven't posted for a while, had to be careful after one deleted for Mumsnet Rules, so I hope to have followed the rules properly this time as Michael Gove is obviously divisive here but it is a subject I feel strongly on, people on the other side have had their turn on this forum to reprehend him strongly indeed. I knew to expect "Anti-Gove Fundamentalist" sentiment strong here from my past "lurking". I am not a "Luvvie" who automatically support all of Gove reforms but overall he is to be applauded.

From Muslim perspective education is very important particularly for the hope of our girls' future: one thing making me sad is how a few fathers still think they have the right to deny or hinder the education of females Sad , attendance laws have been in for decades but still girls kept off from 12-13 or even "home" to ancestor country- links in with forced marriage Angry ) When Ray Honeyford challenged this sexism in 1980s he was done over on trumped up "Racism" charge. I detest Islamophobia but expecting girls to be allowed to have education IS NOT islamophobic, it is enforcing girls' rights. Rant over on this score...

Therefore it is definitely not acceptable for state system which the 90% must rely on to be weakened, watered-down, corrupted. For 30 years this has been happening undoubtedly, the teachers' unions are just EXTREME on this issue.I have to say, though controversial, I am overall pleased that this is not ANOTHER year of "record pass rates for the 1 millionth year running", i exaggerate a little. Our population DO NOT become more intelligent every single year so this inflationary bullshit needs to go- GOOD RIDDANCE!

I feel empathy for the pupils finding out lower than expected scores, it is not their fault whatever goes on in machinations of political circles while they have been busy being children and attending school; but ultimately I must applaud the end of Grade Inflation. It should not have to ruin anyone's life if employers accept that stricter standard will be used when comparing results since the exposure of the cheating fiasco (disgusting even if not officially illegal, like semi-legal ways Ministers cheated the expenses system, but worse as the education of our children is in jeopardy.) Of course some employers will be Being Unreasonable and not do so, this is not exam board or government fault.

"Teacher Bashing" seems to be used a lot, sure many politicians have been hostile to teachers but Gove trusts them, this paranoia about free schools = "evil capitalism", and corporate compulsion is excessive: I see him as generally respectful of the teaching profession as it deserves apart from the Extremist left-wing who control the unions, too often they are the public face of it to people without current contact with school life, and if so no surprise people will "bash" teachers! Media and government figures, they should know better than to attack the profession as a whole.

Also Gove has defended faith schooling, it is DEFINITELY necessary to have a strong advocate for that given the way Muslims' principles are treated in many schools, we do not send our 14 year old daughters to school to tell their teachers how they are caught up sexually with boys and they not disclose this important information to us- ridiculous absolute secrecy policies overriding our parent child relationship, nor to get birth-control behind our backs, nor do we send our impressionable young sons for their formation to learn that Islam is "intolerant" and anti-Muslim lies or imply that the humanistic post-modernism and sexual revolution is the only option to live. Maybe this type of teacher thinks they know better than a parent practising tradtional morality, due to "the richness of their experience" when "we haven't had that experience" paraphrase SONIA SOTOMAYOR. Christians will be our allies here and those non-theists who accept how important faith is for others.

He is with me on the behaviour issues, on teachers' authority (there you go trusting teachers) not pupil privilege to misbehave- enough of the exculpationist crew with their "NO, not their fault they misbehave, you see- it's all about intersectionality of poverty, social exclusion, child protection issues and so on... oh no, don't punish them,be a good compassionate progressive, don't exclude them... EXPULSION, how can you use that reactionary word, you want to hang and flog the children next!"- you know the sort of exculpationist rhetoric I speak of, even if exaggerated for effect. Gove has the right idea NOT to non-responsibilize young people for their misdemeanours, see 2011 riots.

He is with me also on a traditional respectable English, Maths and History curriculum with greater core knowledge content and no easy option of endless modules and endless re-sits, you don't always get 5 chances to do one job bit by bit in real life. extenuating circumstances maybe, not normally. School must once more prepare for working life.

I do not think Michael Gove perfect but much better for supporting family values, faith, discipline & educational excellence than Labour could be. These are very MAJOR parts of what society is built on.

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