Really need some advice, do I look to move dd or not?

[Dancergirl]

Bit of background: dd2 is 9.5 and going into year 5 at a state primary where she has been since reception. She is an extremely bright child and has been called gifted in literacy. She hasn't been overly happy at school, partly due to friendship issues, partly her feeling she is different to her peers and partly due to her not being able to work as she would like due to the work being too easy and classroom disruption. Year 4 was NOT a good year at all for her - a new SN child in the class, a NQT who struggled to keep control and dd's extension work (at my request and the teachers's agreement) only lasting a few weeks then back to normal.

We looked into moving her to a girls indie in year 5, however the ones we like are full and she is on their waiting lists. But we've been told there is little chance of a place until year 6 which doesnt seem like a good time to move her. So I've been resigned to the fact that she'll stay where she is and hope things will improve at secondary school.

However, talking to someone today, they advised me to talk to the schools in question again and show them a copy of the educational psychologist's report we had done recently. Apparently if it's in the girl's interest and the school's interest, they can sometimes agree to accept one more girl into the school.

Has anyone heard of this happening? I just don't know if we should move her or not. But in a way I feel she's just marking time at her current school. The year 5 teacher I have more faith in and he seems better on the discipline front but I want to make sure dd is suitably challenged at school.

I don't mean to be unkind, but chances are every other girl on those waiting lists is very bright too! The mutual best interests thing is far more likely to work for something more individual, like sport or music, where the school has a reputation to uphold and your child is particularly talented (I've seen it happen with rugby).

Personally I would keep talking to the schools you want, and try and make a personal connection. I was as well known as a begging ass to our school's Registrar when I had two children in the school but there was no space for my middle son They did take him as an extra in the end, but only because of "sibling completion" - there is no way they would have taken him otherwise (and they knew another child was leaving after one more term).

Private school parents don't like numbers going over what they have been promised as small class sizes are often one of the main reasons people are willing to pay fees. I heard a few moans about DS2 getting in but just pleaded ignorance!

I'm assuming that the schools whose waiting lists your on have either pre tested her and/or you told them how bright she is. If they haven't done the former then I think you should be asking yourself if they are going to stretch her more than her current state primary. Remember just because your paying doesn't mean that they are going to do what they say any more than in the state sector. Assuming they have all the information then although it may be useful to send the ed. psych report I doubt its going to have that much impact.
On a positive note as you seem to be on the waiting list for more than one school I would have thought a place will soon come up even the most sought after schools often have the occasional vacancies. It is useful to keep talking talk to the admission depts let them know your still very keen and also emphasise that you can move you DD the moment a place comes up (a big problem for those already in private ed who have to give a terms notice).
On a different note we've found from personal experience that very bright children are much happier in super selective schools so it might be worth hanging it out for the most selective school to offer you a place. I know its frustrating waiting and but if you look at the bigger picture its better to get her into the most suitable school now than have to move her again because the one your in didn't meet up to your expectations. A few more terms on a state primary wont do her learning any harm especially if the teachers better.

I agree that you need to look at the bigger picture / long term view. What are the plans for secondary?
Children who show early promise don't always have a good outcome. They can plateau and find that they are no longer ahead of the pack. Or they can get good early results by coasting, and never learn-how-to-learn (see various AS/A2 threads running ATM).
I would concentrate more on character than academics at this stage: help her with her friendship issues, help her to manage/overcome boredom at school, etc.
Perhaps a tutor might be enough to keep her ticking over meantime (and help with selective entrance at Y7, if that's the way you are going?) or divert energies into extra-curricular activitis?

We tried maths tutoring when my son was at a primary school. Only 1 in 500 have the same ability he has at maths and he was bored stiff and unchallenged in his tiny primary but all that happens is that they are then even further ahead of their peers but still doing the same work as their peehusky class and thus are even more bored. We were also given extension exercises by the school, which neither I nor my neighbour who taught his year group (2) could do, but in class it was back to adding and subtracting double and triple numbers which he could do in his head. So generally the whole thing I felt was unsuccessful. The situation was discussed by the school governors and we were told that they didn't have the money or time to help him in school; they couldn't justify helping one child.

Often bright children don't have great social skills and it's hard to help them with this we moved my DS to a boarding school where there was emphasis on developing all round skills as well as stretching them academically and it helped to a certain extent but now he's at a super selective senior he's allowed to be himself and he's much happier.
Extra curricular activities definitely help we did a variety my DS learnt to ride went to a gym class and one of those French clubs. Ultimately moving him was of course the best solution but as I said if you have choice; we weren't so lucky due to our location then it's worth sitting it out till the right school comes up. Do look ahead find a prep that going to feed into and has a history of feeding into the right senior school.

Thank you for your advice. We already have a tutor for her in preparation for 11+ exams. We were planning to sit her at the girls selective schools of which the junior depts she's on the waiting list for plus 2 girls state grammars. What's worrying me slightly about moving her now if a place came up is that she might miss out on (state grammar) school opportunities at 11+. Well not miss out exactly but it would mean her moving again.

Unfortunately her current school have over-promised and under delivered when it comes to bright children. In reception she was put on the g and t register, but no-one told us what that meant, nor was she getting extra work. The school has recently lost one v bright child from dds class to the indie sector, his parents were v patient with the school but ultimately they weren't meeting his needs.

If I can avoid it, I really don't want to move her now with 2 years left to go at primary, but on the other hand I don't want her to spend those 2 years being unchallenged and unhappy.

Are there alternative state schools to look at-often there is a greater chance of gaining a place at an oversuscribed school in upper KS2. Being put on the G+T register was a pretty meaningless exercise anyway as the children registered would vary so much between schools and has been mostly been scrapped now. What levels is your DD working at currently? What did she get at the end of KS1?

What are the class sizes like currently at the girls' independent school? I doubt they will accept any more if it makes their class sizes too big as that's what the other parents are paying for!

I wouldn't worry about moving her again in two years children are very adaptable and the end of yr 6 is a natural break point for many. The advise to look at another state primary is good we used to live in a county with grammar schools and a huge number of tiny primaries some were definitely more pushy/academic/ambitious for the pupils than others. Have you tried MN local for specific advise or just talk to mums in your local playground indoor play centre (wince) someone is bound to know which schools have a good reputation for grammar school entrance. I'm sure there's also a website with stats someone more clued up on state ed than I am is bound to know.
I know nothing about G and T registers but what did you ed psych report say these usually test IQ; if done by a trained ed psych should have given you an idea about inate telligence although of course this is only part of the picture and however high does not guarantee academic success.

Was your EP report organised by the school or did you pay for it privately?

Hi Dancer. Where is your DD1 going to start in Sept? A girls indie or one of the selective state secondaries or one of the faith state secondaries? If you don't want to put the name on a public forum, either PM me, or if it's an indie girls, tell me the uniform colour, I should be able to guess it.

A lot of the girls through schools are NOT full. Indeed where my DDs where (green uniform, we've since moved abroad), there was always at least one space in each year group. Which girls' schools did you call (uniform colour will suffice)? Sometimes there are spaces and admin fobs people off. If you're after the green uniform, PM me, I'm not sure if the year group for your DD2 is full is full or not (my DD1 was a year above, so going into Year 6, and there was always a space or 2).

Is your DD by any chance at a faith state primary which has a bright/medium blue uniform sweatshirt?

My gut would be to move her, there's got to be a way.....