Anyone gone private at primary and state at secondary?

[jasperc163]

Sorry to post yet another private school post but I am interested to know if anyone (going private but for whom paying fees is going to be difficult long term) has opted for private at primary level with the view of going back to state at 11 or 13 (esp if not in a grammar school area)? DD1 is moving from a village primary into Yr2 at a girls indie in september, but she has a younger sister and i think that doing this with both until 18 may be unrealistic. The local secondary is a 'good' though not outstanding girls non-selective.

I suppose I am taking the view that my DD's confidence in herself and perception of her abilities will be moulded most in the primary years and that if we were to do this she would at least hit secondary with a head start and (hopefully if we have chosen right) a confidence in herself and her strengths (currently lacking) and a good work ethic.

I know that alot of people say that they would save £ for secondary (if thinking about private at all). Anyone done / planning to do things the other way round?

Thanks

You will probably get most replies saying it really does depend on the schools in your area. If the primaries are even half way decent, I would go state for primary and save your money for if you even need it for private secondary every time. But since pastoral care is most important to us and you are more likely to be able to find decent pastoral care in primaries than in secondaries, then that is how our decision has been made (ds has ASD so needs good pastoral care and a small sized secondary - they don't exist in the state sector (small secondaries) unless they're really really bad!)

I would do it this way and maybe hope for a scholarship/bursary at secondary, where they are much more prevalent than at primary/prep.

I went to a state school at primary level (I think it was Ofsted outstanding? Not sure but was certainly a good school), and a minor private school for secondary, and did well academically (got into Russell Group uni etc.). The story was broadly the same for others who followed that path.

I know a number of people who were private all through - they have also (mostly) done well for themselves.

The ones that have tended to do less well as time has gone on are those who switched from private to state - although I can only really vouch for those who have switched at 16 (even following private school from 4+). They have, in most (but far from all) cases gone onto uni, but they have been far more likely to go to the lower ranked universities.

From looking at those around me, I believe IMHO that the money is best spent at secondary level - that is when the exam results are gained, universities applied for, and serious extra-curriculars are done. That is when the money will have most impact on their life chances.

Not me personally but at my well regarded state school there were a handful of children who come from private schools.

You could really tell the difference they were extremely focused, very ambitious and had excellent worth ethic. Always over acheiving in everything!

They have done well now, go on to become doctors etc

There were a fair few at my DD's girls grammar who had taken that route. There didn't seem to be any difference between them and their classmates from state primaries. I would say it depends very much on what is on offer in your area.

I understand your thinking, but IMO it would work best if she were then moving on to a very strong state secondary. We decided to do state primary, private secondary because the exam results are more important higher up and peer pressure has more impact, so we want the DC to be among pupils who work hard. But it is also true that values which are fixed early in life tend ot last, so it's worth a shot if the private school is excellent.

In DDs year at school 9 came from the private school nearby
In DSs year at the same school, 11 moved across

it's one of our options for dd (about to go into y5 of a lovely independent primary)

our local secondary school is partially selective with an extension stream - dd may well get offered a place either through distance or on the test although we will need a plan B as the catchment area is changing and children need to get a ridiculously high score on the test - dd is v bright but if she has a bad day or makes a silly mistake that could make the difference between passing and failing

our plan B schools are all academically selective on the advice of dd's current head

if dd gets a place at our local secondary we will have to have a long hard think about what's going to be the best option - I'm leaning towards the state option as by the time dd gets there she'll have had a fantastic start and I'm pretty confident she'll do well wherever she goes - her primary head said if she got a place it would give her the greatest chance of going to Oxbridge of all the local alternatives, private or state

but if she doesn't get a place there, there isn't another viable state alternative so we will probably tighten our belts and keep her in the private system

my kids school is a totally non selective comp

It would depend on the schools. Only pay if you are going to get something better.

I would've thought, unless there is a really good state secondary, if you were going to pay for one, go for secondary. It will give you time to save up, as well.

It's our plan for our DC where secondary is super-selective grammar scheme. Private prep school is cheaper than secondary private education and will hopefully prepare them - and (as I understand it) - everyone else does the same so in terms of peer group is much the same as a private school.

It sucks, the system, as everyone who can afford it plays the game. But from where we stand, we can't afford NOT to play the game, ITSWIM. Doesn't make me happy, but that's life where we are and I am not going to disadvantage my children by refusing to "play the game" on moral grounds even if I am compromising my own moral/ethical standing to do so

I would do it the other way round unless you plan to move to a grammar school area for secondary. Secondary is where achievement matters and no matter how clever your child is at 11 after being nurtured at a good prep, it is easy to drift along in the much larger class sizes in a state secondary. If you have a decent state primary, you should be able to augment literacy and numeracy at home yourself. You could then use the school fees at secondary. You could also be putting the school fee money into ISAs etc. now so that hopefully the pot will have increased a bit by the time you need it.

At secondary level it is much harder to help your child at home as you may not be familiar with the subject material. You could always have private tuition to support them I guess as a compromise, but I would definitely make the investment at the secondary rather than primary level.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I guess we will just have to hope that we can afford secondary when it comes, or that we consider moving to a grammar area. Though I would think at least that going into higher sets that she might of in a non selective school would be of some benefit?

For me it about alot more than academics at primary as I agree this can be caught up on - I was in state primary til 10, had to cram for 11+ for private secondary with a tutor but went on to get v good exams and went to a RB uni. But I have never really had self belief and DD1 is a bit of a chip off the old block.

In yr 1 she had already labelled herself 'bad at maths' as not her strength and yet her strengths (reading age of 9, creativity, imagination etc) were barely mentioned or applauded. She just quietly sat somewhere in the middle of the class and didn't cause any trouble. I want her to develop self confidence and to aspire to whatever she is capable of and I don't think she was really going to get this where she was. Clearly this is our job as parents too but I think school can significantly impact this too. So I suppose that is why we are making the jump now.

If you are in a grammar area there are a lot of kids who go to prep school and the parents assume, that by paying till 11 they will get into grammar and be free....

A sort of logical course of education, and right for some kids, BUT it clearly turns the preps into hot houses for 11+. This probably will mean that kids that actually aren't that bright get into grammar. Maybe this is OK, but maybe not....

We chose (as we might have been able to scrape fees for 1 or 2 kids but not all 3 I doubt) to use the local primary - this was fine for the girls (DS would probably have had a happier time at a prep in retrospect, but we used " enrichment" to get round that). Luckily they were all, as we thought , " grammar material" and are fine.

Not sure how the prep school child who doesn't pass the 11+ could cope in a huge school with classes of 30 as opposed to 11-15, with behaviourally challenging kids etc would cope . I think you have to be prepared to pay through to 18 TBH.

Hello. I just found this thread and while I don't normally buy-in to the private vs state debate, I think the OP raises an interesting question and I wouldn't dismiss it.

Close neighbours of ours decided to go this route for all of their children (and believe me, they could have afforded the fees right through secondary). It worked for them but our local secondary is very strong and has a history of getting oxbridge places every year.

Hi Rockdoctor - thanks - do you mean they went from private primary to state secondary?

I am not trying to start a private v state debate, more ask about the impact of a better, more aspirational primary offering (in terms of the choices available to me then that happens to be private, but that obviously won't always be the case) in terms of having an ongiong effect on a child's perception of their abilities, their self confidence and their work ethic. I suppose I am asking how much of our personalities is already very much formed by the age of 10. I have no doubt that much of the academics can be caught up on (I certainly did and I went into private school at 11).

thanks

I think there is a lot in the idea of the primary years forming the academic mindset. That old Jesuit quote: "Give me the child until he is seven and I will show you the man." However, I still think that secondary is where the important exam grades come in and a decent state primary should instil enough love of learning if the child is willing. And if they're not, what's the point anyway?

We are!
My 2 are at a local independent small private primary - Y1 and Reception. The view we have is that the private school focuses much much more on the basics of 3Rs and with smaller class sizes can help even further. Their whole ethos is about instilling a solid grounding in the fundamentals. Add on to this the level of confidence and desire to thrive and learn which the local state schools do not give (dont know why) then we feel this offers the best for us. As working parents also the private school offers 8-6pm 51 weeks of the year cover if needed so we also do not have the added concern of finding non term time holiday arrangements
At the moment our plan would be to send them to the local very good State comprehensive secondary. This school performs very well.
Of course this could all change depending on our childrens acedemics and how the schools are performing in a few years and maybe we will have won the lottery by then so we can afford to send both to some of the private secondaries near us!
I know there are some very good state primaries but on the whole we felt that the state system is happy with everyone being average, whereas the private system strives a little harder (they have to in order to be seen as successful) to produce higher academics

Thanks wfhmumofwho :-) At least i'm not the only one ....

We are doing private infants, may well not be able to afford to continue from 7 or 11, liked the school by far the best (looked round 10 state/private in the area!), preschool there has been great, and hope that small class sizes in the early years will benefit DD2 especially (end august birthday). Our local state primaries are OK, but secondary dire (35% A to C GCSEs) so if we can't afford private will move.

I think it would depend on the school.

However...

Prep schools (and in my experience most private primaries would define themselves as a 'prep' school, although I know some don't), are preparing children for entrance to a private secondary school and tailor their curriculum accordingly.

Unless you think your child is below average or needs focused help because of SEN (and are choosing a specific private school to do this), I think that with most prep schools, the 'value added' is that they will prepare your child for a specific list of private secondaries. They don't necessarily provide a better education. The biggest influence on a child's performance at primary level is parental support/opportunities provided.

I'm not sure that the kind of 'self belief' that might be nurtured in a private prep school would go down too well in most state secondary schools, and I would also be worried that all my child's friends would be sent to a private secondary and regarded state as second best. I think you would have to have a specific secondary in mind and be fairly confident that you wouldn't be setting your child apart from their future class mates.

My niece is going this route, mainly due to money issues. I think SIL would have continued to send her to private schools otherwise.

Since state's the way, however, SIL has selected one of the better state high schools in the city for DN to attend. It's within a reasonable commuting distance of her house, one of DN's best friends attends the school, and compared to other city schools, it's on the high side of total Higher exam passes.

TBH, the family has been less impressed recently with the particular private primary school that DN is attending just now, anyway. She's a bright kid and found most academic work easy up until the last school year, when things finally got challenging for her. But instead of dedicating a little more time to DN, her teacher just lost patience with her and then whined to SIL during the parents' evening about how "hard" it is to teach a class size of 12. Meanwhile my DSD at her local state primary (same city) managed to make a ton of academic progress under her teacher's instruction, in a composite class of 25-30 students.

That said, I still understand the temptation of the private primaries. DN currently gets music, art, gym and maybe drama taught to her by full-time specialists, while DSD has to settle for all lessons coming from her (otherwise brilliant, but definitely not specialist-trained) classroom teacher. DN gets proper music lessons and the chance to perform onstage in an elaborate school musical every year. Her school has also entered citywide music competitions for several years, which DN has had chances to sing in. DSD gets... absolutely none of that. The state secondaries here still offer specialist teaching, so DN likely won't miss out on this when she moves schools.

We are in an area with 2 state grammar schools that are regularly the best performing schools in the whole country and there are huge numbers of families which use the private prep schools at primary level on the basis that their children will get places at the grammar schools. Some of the preps have entry at the start of Year 3 so some children do state Reception - Yr 2, then prep for Year 3-6, some do prep all the way through primary. Pretty standard.

We have 3 DC so we're not in a position to pay for private education full stop, but if I had the money, I would go down this route simply to get them into the grammars as they are such outstanding schools.

If I were in an area where the secondary education wasn't as competitive, would I go down the private route just to improve my child's confidence and desire to learn? Not necessarily, I'm not sure prep school will change that. Yes, she'll be in a smaller class and get more 1:1 time, but the issues you've set out are surmountable at home with coaching / out of school activities etc. If it was a question of potentially paying for her to go to a better school at secondary level, I'd probably prefer to have the money to do that rather than spend it on private primary schooling.

I think there's way too much generalisation in the state private debate. All schools are not equal in either sector. Don't assume private is always better as a small independent school may have more on common with a good state school than a big public school for example.

We have done local state primary (terrible), small independent prep (pretty good), and now both DSs are in an excellent state comp which we chose over a private offer because we actually thought it offered a better standard of teaching (and didn't involve spending 2 hours a day on a bus).

They had no problems with the transfer in and out of state/private, loads of people do it, although the prep school did try to push towards private or grammar (neighbouring county) as it looks good on their records.

Do the best you can for your circumstances and try not to worry too much - it wI'll be fine!

We're doing this. Can't afford private secondary ATM. Chose the private primary because we could afford it and we preferred it to the local state primary (outstanding ofsted school but not great on inclusion for kids w/disabilities). We liked the ethos of the non-selective private school.

The kids have plenty of friends in the state system and we've been impressed with the secondary schools we've looked at. If private secondary was an option we would have looked but not necessarily have chosen it.