Private primary or outstanding state? They both cost exactly the same......

[foreverhappy]

Little bit of background information that I hope is helpful:

DH and I live in a not so nice area of a nice town. We moved here about 5 years ago and bought a small house which we always knew we would be able to afford.

Since then, work has improved greatly for us both, leading us both to have more financial stability. DH has finished training and is now on a good salary, I am currently SAHM to DD (3) but intend to go back to work when she goes to school. We would like more children, but that is not proving fruitful at the moment, but I will save that for another thread.....

Anyway, I digress, we are now thinking about our primary school choices as the ones we are in catchment for have become very poor over the years, the closest one to us has just been placed in special measures.

So, we will have to move to the 'best' part of town to be in the catchment for the 'best' primary schools as they are so over subscribed and the catchment area is so very tiny.

This means renting our house out and renting a flat/house in the very expensive streets near the schools and paying an extra £500/700pcm (based on rough calculations.)

We are prepared to do this of course for DD and can afford it as our mortgage is not that much at the moment. However, upon some further investigation it seems that private pre schools are between £6,000/7,000 a year.

So, we either pay £500/700 pcm for 12 months = £6,000/8,400 to be in with a chance of getting DD into an outstanding local primary. (Of course there is still a possibility that she might not even get in, but if we do, we would be more than happy to carry on renting so she lives near her new friends and we are near the school etc. I also understand there is a common (quite right) view that if you do move to be in the catchment area, you should stay there rather than moving out as soon as your DC gets a place at the school.)

Or the other possibility is we stay where we are and send DD private, which according to my initial calculations, will cost exactly the same as renting in the catchment area of the outstanding primary.

We are of course planning to visit both schools and others and do more research, but just wondered whether anyone else is/was in a similar situation or has any advice?

I am a little concerned that if we start the private school system it would be harder to transfer her to secondary state and know that if we have anymore children we won't be able to afford private for them both.

Thanks very much

But the outstanding primary may also get poor over the next few years?

I am all for supporting state education though, but I don't think your comparison is right.

Sorry, I might be missing something, but wouldn't it be fair better over the longer term to move to an area you consider to be better ?

Bike - Yes, it may do, but has a pretty good record for the past 10/15 years..

Back - That wouldn't be a possibility until I was earning full time again and if we have more children my return to work would be even longer...

The cost isn't the same long term, though, is it? To rent for 12 months is the same as one year's private schooling. If you moved away afterwards, back to your old house, then it's free from then on.

Things to consider:

Suppose you do have more children. Can you afford them all to go private?
What happens if you move then don't get into the better primaries?
Suppose DD settles in state school, so you move back as planned and have more children but there's no sibling policy. You are out of area again for your other children. Really hard to make decisions based on children who may never exist, but it's worth at least thinking about these issues as they could arise. Is there an alternative that solves more than one problem?

Well, we wouldn't be renting just for a year. We would stay there, so we are near new school and dd's new friends, also if we do have more children then they would be able to attend the same school, so with that in mind we are planning on renting for 4/5 years and then seeing what happens in terms of other children and our job situations....

We may (but finances may be too stretched and then I would be worried about how this would impact us as a family in other ways) be able to afford for just one more child to go private, but this would be on the basis that I returned full time to work. If we had a third - there is no way we could afford it and then it wouldn't be fair to send 2 but not the third.....

Yes, there is always that risk of not getting into the better primaries, I presume if you don't get into first, you will be offered second or third choice, which would mean having to choose somewhere to rent roughly in middle catchment of all three choices...if you don't get third choice is it simply a case of being offered the next closest one to your address?

Thanks very much

OP, have you checked what rental prices are like for your area and if the rent you'd get on your house would cover your mortgage. Have you checked with your mortgage provider that you are allowed to rent your house out? Have you made allowance for fallow periods between tenants?

Also be aware that if you own one house and are renting another, some local authorities will investigate it carefully as they will assume you intend to move back to the owned house as soon as you have a place.

Okay first go and look at all possible schools. Just because it is private or outstanding doesn't mean it will be good or desirable or suitable for your family.

Next why not sell your property and buy a new one in the catchment? You will then gain for increase in house prices, which usually happens in the catchments for good state schools.

Private school fees also can increase massively, 5% a year is not unheard of. Also look at the cost of school fees later on, they can increase massively from primary/prep to senior. Do also factor in large kit lists and extras.

Then you will have a solid understanding of your finances, and can understand if you can really afford private.

To my mind, this is all based around too many "ifs" "buts" and "maybes". If you are talking about living in a certain area for the length of time your child is at school (+ a year beforehand) then you are talking about 15 years, for one child (longer if you have others). If you know you can afford an extra £6K - £8.4K per year on rent, then you could afford that on a mortgage, surely ? That way, at the end, you'd have an asset, and, in the interim years you'd have security of knowing you can stay there. Even if you can't afford a mortgage (with you being at home at the moment) on houses around that particular school, then might there not be a compromise, so you move from the school you don't feel is good enough, to one you feel is better without entering such a long term renting commitment ?
Of course, as you say in your OP, the first priority is to actually go and get a feel for different schools - you may well be surprised at what you find.

I know of families who love across the road from the local best school and didn't get in! It's children with statements first, then siblings and then area, so no promise of getting in I'm afraid.
Are you sure on private school prices? That sounds like maybe nursery fees but not like primary IMO.
Have you looked at burseries? That might be worth. Considering it as may mean you can consider it for further children.
Most state schools are fully aware some parents rent to get into a good school, and have been.known to remove places if you move out of that home, and rented homes are not always secure.

I was going to say that schools in Special measures can and do improve quite quickly. You do not say when you have to apply for a school place but by next year the local school could have improved enormously.
It really depends on how much weight you give to OFSTED. The new regime is much tougher so a school that is Outstanding and was inspected more than a year ago may not make that grade now.
At primary school, particularly infant school, parental involvement can be more important than choosing the best school.

Won't depend on that tbh, dd1 school was put on notice to improve a year ago and things have got worse we have moved her for sept.

Hi foreverhappy. Lots to think about! Just wondered if you had considered that school fees increase each year. DD1's fees have gone up 4/5 % each year and DD2 has been at her school one term and the fees have gone up 8%!! The school has had an outstanding ofsted and has a huge waiting list so can afford to increase the fees. Just thought you might not have considered that. Good Luck with the choices.

dds primary school went from Special Measures to Good in 18 months but it depends on what the issues are that need to be tackled!

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your comments and advice - very helpful.

I've called the LEA and they say that at the time of application you will need proof that you are living at the address you apply from - mortgage statement/child benefit/rental agreement.

I explained that we intend renting our house out and renting in catchment and they said there is no cause for investigation unless they suspect the parents do not live there and are using a family/friends address to secure a place at the school. I asked about the ethics etc of it and said it is perfectly legal and hundreds of parents do exactly this every year as this is the criteria for catchment (to live in catchment at time of application) and many do not commit to buying just in case child doesn't get in to the school and circumstances change etc.

Re: renting house out, yes DH already called the mortgage company about consent to lease. They have said in principle they do allow it on the basis the rent covers the mortgage (which it will do) that the insurance is changed over for letting the property out, the increase rate will rise slightly and there will be a fee, so we do know what to expect.

We would be moving about 5 miles from our current house.

I haven't factored in the rising costs each year of private, but what the possible increase would roughly be was going to be one of my top questions when looking around schools.

Obviously we are going to look around all the schools and go from there but just wanted to get some thoughts ahead of this.

Re: burseries the schools we have looked at do not mention this at all on their websites but will investigate further.

Just addressing some general points I am aware that a rental property is not secure etc but how else is it possible to be in with a chance of being considered for that school unless you move to rent in that catchment area?

As the LEA even said most parents do not buy in that area on the presumption that they will get a place as the place is not guaranteed. They gave an example of how for some schools the catchment area is so small that on a certain road, only houses going up to a certain number are eligible as they are closer to the school compared to the rest of the houses on the very same street!

We chose to put our money into educating our children and staying where we live thankfully mortgage free, rather than moving to a better area to send them to the better comprehensive, and have a huge mortgage.

As you have written, you are hoping to have another child at some stage (best of luck) and fees for 2 or 3 in private may be an issue.

We see renting as throwing money away, where as school fees are effectively our mortgage.

I would check out the fees as I think you are are a little under with those figures, Reception fees at our children's school starts at 9k, seniors £12k, and I know we are at the lower end of fees compared to others.

I woudl move to be nearer the school, rent first then buy.

Not sure about your figures. I assume you have a mortgage now, so the extra you be shelling out each month is the difference between your current mortgage (assuming rent covers it all) and your new rent. Or is the £5-700 a month that difference?

Either way I'd move. If you only have one child you'll be in a positin to sell yours and buy in the new area in a couple of years, so your exatr outgoings would be for two years only. If you have more dcs then maybe it'll take you 7 years till you can buy, but 7 years of extra outgoings versus 15+ years of at least the same, probably more in fees (plus uniform, school fund, ski trips etc) makes moving way more financially viable. Plus you get a lovely house in a nice area that has increased its value far more than your old one and will provide you with a lovely nest egg if you downsize when you retire! What's not to like in that plan?!

Do you also want to be the only parents at private school in the 'scummier' part of town, unable to afford the overseas trips at secondary age?

Personally, I'd send her to your local state school and save your money.

Lots of people round here transfer to private around Y4. By then you will either be back at work or have conceived a second DC. Either way you'll have a much better idea of the future.

Yes, the £5/700 a month will be the difference so let's say hypothetically our mortgage is 2k, the rent will be 2k to cover our house and the new property to rent in catchment will be 2.5/2.7k.

This is just for primary - I am not commiting to private secondary just yet...and don't really care too much about being 'scummy' we would stay exactly where we are if the schools in catchment hadn't sadly become so negelcted......

"Lots of people round here transfer to private around Y4. By then you will either be back at work or have conceived a second DC. Either way you'll have a much better idea of the future."

Oh interesting, is that because they have given it a good shot?

The scummy part of town is irrelevant.

We thankfully can afford the extras (op that is something you also should consider) many children in Thier classes who live locally to the school can't. 7 children in our eldests class didn't ski after Christmas, it was just over £1,000.

Calculate on the most expensive year for the private primary - if you can afford that, then I'd go for it. After that, suggest you call the private school and ask about sibling discounts, also burseries might be available.

Thing is, if you were going to buy in the more expensive area, then I'd say go for it, but as you are going to rent, don't. You aren't garenteed to get your DC in to the school, you are suddenly going to lose your home security- it's not unheard of for families in private rented to have to move every 12 months, sometimes every year, that's expensive, and emotionally draining. It's not your home and you won't be able to do things like decorate to your taste etc.

But would you really swap to state at secondary after private at primary? Most people do it the other way round - smaller classes etc better for GCSEs than KS1 and 2.

I agree with DontmindifIdo - The main issue here is the fact that renting is never stable even if you manage to find a good private landlord. We rent and are looking at putting the money towards a deposit that we were considering spening on a private prep.
It costs thousands to move each time and is completely stressfull, and if you alread own a house to move to rented is a bit bonkers, we live in the same village as our local underscribed school and still did not get it. We can't move though and are not sending him to the school that was allocated. We are now effectively waiting for the waiting list to move. Why don't you put your name down for some primary schools further away, we found some great ones and are high up the waiting list, you may be suprised!