Private schools/ what do dcs do?

[morethanpotatoprints]

Just wondered what children at independant schools learned and if it was the same for all.
Parents, do you know what you are paying for? I ask as many parents complain they have no idea what dcs do all day.

Prep schools do seem to use history as a springboard for thinking assignments.

At that age DS was given the essay title " Alfred the Great, Alexander the Great, if all you have to do to be great is kill people and invade your neighbours why not Hitler the Great?"

my son is at an independent prep school. We get an exact timetable at the beginning of the year, so I know exactly what lessons he's doing between 8am and 6 pm every day. There are lots of sports, music, language, arts and drama, as well as the usual academic subjects. We are informed about all school trips by letter and via the school web site, so there are no surprises when the invoices arrive. They can be very slow to answer emails, but otherwise I think the communications levels are very good.

He did spend a couple of year at state school and my experience with regards to comms with them was not so good, but I am sure it varies a lot from one school to the next.

Why do so many feel an overwhelming need to know if there DC has been on a school trip for the day and IMO even more bizarely a detailed time table? This is not a critisism I am genuinely curious. Ok my DS has and is full boarding so Ive had many years of not knowing the nitty gritty details so Im pretty hardened now but why as parents do some feel a need to be so involved? When I look at a school I ask lots of questions have looked at timetables although I hasten to add not at senior level asked about language/games/music etc provision extra curricular activities so when a school says they get five French lessons and two hours of games five times a week I assume they're telling the truth! I don't feel a need to know that French is 10 15 on Monday and 14 20 pm Tuesday.
You probably think I'm a slack parent but I'm more interested in the bigger picture don't get me wrong I do watch what's going on and if over a period of time I thought something wasn't right Id be pretty quick to try and sort it out. But I really don't feel as parent that I need to be supervising the micro details of my DCs education.

For me, I suppose it's because my children know I am interested in what they're doing. We talk a lot and I can ask specific questions like, how did your apple crumble turn out today, or did you manage to clarify that alegebra that you didn't understand, for example.

They find it very boring and predictable when other adults just say, How's school? It doesn't exactly strike up a conversation. But maybe that's just us.

I don't think my children think I'm not interested in them in fact far from it and I think they would cheerfully testify that we talk about loads of things including there school life but I also try and talk about non school things I've bored them stiff talked from a very early age about geoeconomics philosophy geopolitics religion geography agriculture population movement urbanisation art geography the rural idyl geography ( my degree subject in case you hadn't guessed) the crisis in much of Africa and also mundane day to day stuff! It's so easy to assume that because those who don't parent like we do are not interested.

I'm not saying you're not interested, I'm just answering your question:

why as parents do some feel a need to be so involved

Fairenuff. I suppose its a particular philosophy that many parents possess. For me it is the fact that I take my responsibility seriously and know it is important my dcs receive a good education. I don't trust the government in anything 100% of the time and felt I needed to monitor the provision. I think I would also be the same if they were privately educated as I like a certain amount of control over what my dc do. That does not entail being a control freak though, everything in moderation.
What do you gain from boarding school? This is what I find hard to understand to be honest. I can see why alot of people choose private school but do you ever see your children? I am also not criticising as I have little experience in this from a parents point of view.

Fairenuff. My post was for happygardening, apologies there.

we talk about loads of things including there school life

Happy which part of their school life do you talk about if you don't know what they are doing (other than a blanket 'doing all the subjects', extra sports and music lessons)? What can you ask about their day other than 'How was school today?' How can you be specific?

If my dh just said to me 'How was work today?' I would think he was mildly interested or just making small talk.

When he says, 'How did you get on with your appraisal, did you bring up the issue with xyz that you were concerned about?' then I know that he is genuinely interested and has been listening to me.

That's the kind of difference I'm talking about. Just to clarify.

I'm a state school parent and I do know the older DCs timetables (well, I can look it up on the website if I want) BUT I rarely ask questions like 'How was X' unless I've had it flagged up beforehand there is a test (which is VERY rare, DD1 did two GCSE english CAs without telling me, only told me when she got the marks). In the same way as, when I get home from a business trip, the last thing I want is the third degree the minute I walk through the door, they like a bit of a rest too, not some recreation of one of Sayid's flashbacks from Lost every day when they get in. We talk incessantly about the stuff that interests them (not always stuff that interests me I must say but often it is since I have been conducting a subtle campaign of cultural brainwashing since they were all born). We'd all FAR rather talk about that sort of stuff than school work. and they are all doing incredibly well, so it's obviously 'not a problem'

OK - typical day - since the OP asked - DS has just finished Y5:

Arrive at 8am, Chapel, 2 lessons, break, 2 lessons, lunch, free time, 2 lessons (I think), sport, finish at 6pm unless staying for an activity in which case tea at 6pm and then activity (sporting or otherwise) until 7:30pm.

Home. Sleep. Repeat . Shorter days on Wednesdays and Saturdays (normal timetable until lunch, then matches and home at 4pm/when the match finishes/when you get home from an away match)

DS has been doing French since Y3 (should have been earlier IMHO), Latin since Y4, and will start Greek and Spanish in Y6. Separate sciences as well, but the main difference from a state primary is that (from Y4 on) they have subject specialists teaching them everything - so last year their form teacher happened to also be their maths teacher, but they only saw him for "form" stuff for 10 mins in the morning and, TBH, that is the key for me - teachers who specialise in, and are passionate about, their subjects. A class teacher can be absolutely brilliant, but there is no way they will be equally skilled and enthusiastic about every single subject.

Lots and lots of contact time, no homework, things like time in the library to read, time for music practice (supervised) and individual lessons are all timetabled in. Lots of extra curricular stuff, but TBH I only get glimpses of what DS is doing on a day to day basis by interrogating him - but we do get monthly work reports (grades on effort and brief comment) and full reports every term. As with most DC, if asked he will say "not much" but he then startles me with things/concepts that he knows.

As parents we all share the same objective we want our children to first of all healthy but also happy and there are many ways in which we can achieve this. Some home ed. (not for me) others send their children to Steiner schools (definitely not for me) most go to main stream state schools, a small % (relatively speaking) are able to send our children to independent schools then and even smaller % send them to full boarding schools. Just because we fly in the face of the "norm" does not mean mean that we are uncaring interested parents spending our days lunching with other uninterested uncaring mothers and buying designer clothes and going to an exclusive gyms, showing no interest in our children academic progress quite the contrary in fact. All the parents at my DS's schools are very interested in their child's academic progress and outcomes they wouldn't send then there if they weren't. I felt quite a few years ago now, when I wasn't quite so grey and was significantly thinner, that my DS2 would benefit, be very happy and in fact thrive in an environment that was intellectually stimulating in the highest imaginable way and that also provided him with a broad range of other interests and opportunities. I also felt that he personally would benefit form the social education that boarding provides and for him this has in fact been the case. I accept that not all would or do I have anther DS at home.
Seven years later my DS is now significantly healthier than he used to be and he is really happy when I look him and indeed talk to him (which I do quite a lot) he is really happy at school, he is provided with the level of intellectual stimulation that he needs and a range of slightly niche activities which he enjoys and he has grown into a very socially acceptable young man but without having to significantly alter his personality. So I can say at the moment I have achieved what most parents so wish for (of course we never know whats round the corner) and this is turn makes me happy and perhaps when were happy and confident that we've achieved these two things then we no longer need to know if they've been on a geography field trip (although of course I do like to know because I can bore then with more geography and produce "such an interesting journal article/text book" about the rural economy or soil erosion!) There is as the saying goes more than one road to Rome.

This is not a debate about state school vs private education though is it?

Just wondered what children at independant schools learned and if it was the same for all

Broadly speaking, it is the same for all in terms of GCSEs. They all study the same subjects to the same level. Most schools, state and private, offer extra curriculum activities such as additional languages, sports, music lessons, drama, etc. which usually have to paid for separately.

The OP wanted to know whether parents know what their children are doing each day, regardless of which type of school they attend.

I wasn't trying to turn this into state V Private I was just pointing out that contrary to the impression given upthread plenty of state parents don't feel the need to micromanage or run a functioning interrogation suite either. There are some criticisms that can be levelled t private schools but I hardly think not caring about a child's education can ever be said to be one of them. People express their concern in different ways and they manage their concerns in different ways too. some people (often, me) like to chuck money at a problem (it often works). Other people might like to do that but can't, and so find another equally good way to sort it out. Other people like to micromanage. No one way is the 'right' way because no two young people are truly identical (not even identical twins).

I am very thankful to all the people who have answered my question as to what children study at private school and for their opinion on knowing what their dc did.
I have gained the info I need and am again very thankful. I am not into slanging matches nor reading the comments expressed by Sophia. I also reported these comments as I'm sure others did.
Many thanks, once again

Great post Metabilis, it is absolutely down to the individual parents choosing what is right for the individual child, imo.

Many independent school especially boarding school who basically have more time and are able to teach beyond the narrow confines if the national curriculum many are now doing IGCSE and some including my DS's school are now offering the much harder Pre U in some or all subjects. If I tell people even those who send their DC's to other independent schools that my DS will not do history or Eng Lit as GCSEs most people are shocked and come up with comments like I thought English Lit is compulsory. Many preps school don't f

Many independent school especially boarding school who basically have more time and are able to teach beyond the narrow confines of the national curriculum many are now doing IGCSE and some including my DS's school are now offering the much harder Pre U in some or all subjects. If I tell people even those who send their DC's to other independent schools that my DS will not do history or Eng Lit as GCSEs most people are shocked and come up with comments like I thought English Lit is compulsory. Many preps school dont follow the national curriculum but the CE curriculum so often from year 4 aren't having the compulsory numeracy and literacy hour. For children in preps in the "scholarship stream" critical thinking and writing will also have introduced from year 6/7 my DS for his history exam was asked to write about the problems of maintaing peace once it's been achieved using historical examples?! Certainly the Eng comp comprehension and creative writing my DS sat for his entrance exam in year 8 we were told by an English teacher was significantly harder than GCSE and again required the ability to carefully analyse what's said and put 2 and 2 together to make 6 there was also a significant overlap of subjects which I'm not sure my other DS has at his excellent state school. Debating skills are also taught from an early age and also my DS at his boarding school is taught to question everything IME state schools are not always so keen!!

Can I just ask how little children of 6 or 7 can take in Spanish, French and Mandarin when they're just learning English? What is the outcome of this early language training? How many children actually become fluent in a second language?

Or is this just window dressing?

My son only learnt French from 7 yrs old and Latin from 9 the third language in his case Ancient Greek was introduced at yr 7 although he could have chosen Spanish. Apperently many prep schools following the CE curriculum are abandoning the third language because senior schools no longer require it. So the question is how good is his French Latin? Like everything else it rises and falls on the quality/method of the teaching his Latin is pretty smart his French on leaving prep I thought was disappointing to say the least but now he's with fab teachers I can see what he learnt at prep may now be falling into place. Learning a language from such an early age may give you the confidence to tackle new languages he is picking up German pretty effortlessly and of course some of the words especially Latin German are similar. Latin is a slog to learn it and we were advised that if you can learn Latin all the rest are a walk in the park. Without trying to generalise or stereotype boys I have found that they are less keen on languages and are reluctant to try and speak using it maybe learning languages from an early age helps this problem as well.

flexybex - it depends how it is taught. It is actually far easier for a child to learn a second (or subsequent) language at that age than later, as the parents of any bilingual child will testify. Personally, I learned French, from native French speakers, from the age of 6, and that took me through to A level with remarkably little effort on my part, purely because while my peers struggled to understand "rules", I worked on "well that is clearly the right way to say it, because it sounds right".

The point is, when I say I was taught French, I learned to play games and sing songs in French - it wasn't learned by rote or anything like that - basically learning French in as close to the way you learn your own language as is practicable.

I don't know to what extent my DS will get that from his school (and they started way too late, IMHO), but they try - they take them to France for 3 weeks in Y5 and again in Y7 and have at least 1 native speaker for each language.

I couldn't agree more about sings etc I was disappointed at prep at how little emphasis is placed on conversation but that may be the quality of teaching at his prep. If you are learning to speak a new language and apply it too real life situations then it must be more fun. My DS when at prep also had four or five trips to France days weekend and a whole week but again I was a little sceptical how useful asking someone in French what colour car they drive is!

stealth The point is, when I say I was taught French, I learned to play games and sing songs in French - it wasn't learned by rote or anything like that - basically learning French in as close to the way you learn your own language as is practicable.

Many state schools (with non-specialist teachers) will teach French much like that from 7-11.
So really, the multi-language tuition at private schools is just a bit of singing and playing games (as one would expect at primary level)?

Bilingual children are a completely different kettle of fish as they speak, hear and understand people they live with using two languages (as opposed to children with English as an additional language). As you say, they instinctively know what sounds right in a language.

flexybex - I don't have any direct recent experience of state primaries, so I can only say what they do in the schools I do know - but in those schools they progress quickly from play to learning - my DS(Y5) now does a whole variety of listening comprehensions, written work, dictations, etc, etc. I would suspect (but don't know) that the other difference is that some (not all) independent preps have specialist teachers for languages, at least some of whom are native speakers. In the whole "learning what sounds right" thing, learning French from someone with a very strong English (regional or otherwise) accent kills it completely. You can't work out what sounds right, because it doesn't. My secondary school French teacher had a strong Yorkshire accent and hated me because, with typical teenage tact, I winced .

It's another instance where I feel that even the most brilliant generalist primary teacher cannot be expected to cover all subjects, and yet they are (largely) expected to do just that.

to be clear - I was not brought up in a bilingual household and I learned to instinctively know what "sounds right". It is possible to learn, but not in 30 mins a week in a class of 25 with a non-specialist teacher. IMHO.