"the more middle class the school, the better it does"

[puddle]

A study, reported in the Guardian today has found that regardless of background, children do better the more "middle-class" the school they attend. 50% of a school's performance is accounted for by the social make-up of its pupils.

Here's a quote from the article:

"In affluent areas, such as Dukes Avenue, Muswell Hill, in north London, and Lammas Park Road, Ealing, west London, the study would expect 67% of 11-year-olds to achieve level 5 in the national English tests and 94% of 15-yearolds to get five or more passes at GCSE at grade C and above.

Meanwhile, of the children growing up in more deprived areas, such as Hillside Road, Dudley, or Laurel Road, Tipton (both in the West Midlands), just 13% are likely to get the top level 5 in the national English tests for 11-year-olds, while only 24% of 15-year-olds will be reckoned to achieve the benchmark five-plus GCSEs at grade C and above.

Put simply, the more middle-class the pupils, the better they do. The more middle-class children there are at the school, the better it does. It is proof that class still rules the classroom."

This seems to me to be proof that middle class parents damage all children by taking their kids out of state education and into private schools and gives credence to the arguement that middle class parents should stick with the state sector to improve education for everyone.

Views? I know it's a total parp subject for many.....

hhhmmmmm I'd have to find £18K a year to put my 2 in the local prep school - that's a lot of money just for snob value (sh?t I'd have to get a job)

luckily for me, local state primary is excellent

Nobody said only middle class parents care about their kids' education. Of course it's not always the case.

However, from what I've heard from those who teach, or have taught, in 'non middle class' areas/schools there are a higher proportion of parents who don't care about school and place no value on it. It's what those teachers see day to day, in communicating with those parents. It's just a generalisation of course - sure that parents in all walks of life care, and some don't.

I can only assume Bruno ( aged 5 ?) was allowed back, only because he had just won the gold medal in the winter olympics ?

well yes I would ree that other things need tackling like economic deprivation etc
and I would agree that parents who do not take an interest in their child's education should be criticised
BUT not all parents CAN help with homework, for lots of reasons
and anyway that is the fault or issue with the parent and not with the child
every single child deserves the best possible education
AND (believe me, I believe this with a fervour bordering on the evangelical) nothing nothing NOTHING improves a child's life chances more than a good education.
improving schools is a short cut, sure fire way to overall improvement of the economic and social makeup of this country.
I think it is hypocritical and extremely galling that so many middle class parents opt out of the state system and then moan about the sink schools as if they have no responsibility.
they do. we all do.
and if you let the schools ROT because, well, it's the responsibility of their parents isn't it? so sod the kids, who cares about them.
then don't complain if the next generation is undereducated, unemployable, and generally a drain on the state.
god I'm ranting and I have hardly started.

sending children to private school is not per se expressing an interest in education

no it clearly isnt 'normal'

but please believe me when I say a lot of the middle class exodus in some areas are motivated entirely by snobbery

so it does exist! Honest! Or do I live in a tiny rural bubble (which would explain a lot).

As Fortismere is my local comp I think I should say that you shouldn't believe all that you hear NL3.

I am not a fan of private schools. Didn't go to one myself, and wouldn't send my kids to one. However, I am luckily enough to live in a nice town with excellent state schools. If I didn't, I might think differently. I think hammering the MC's for choosing private school is barking up the wrong tree.....

People have to have a choice, more money brings more choices. That is a shitty fact of life. Same applies to transport, Health service etc.

Lets not forget that the MC's are also tax payers and still contribute to the state system.

No you don't live in a bubble, Enid. I think there are many reasons that children get withdrawn from or never sent to the state sector and I would hope that snobbery accounts for only a small minority of decisions to go private but I do believe it happens. I don't think it's merely an accident or true religious fervour that accounts for the fact that the few middle class children in this area seem to go to private school. League tables wise at least this area has some of the best performing state schools in London.

would be v interested in your views about Fortismere Mars if you're willing to share :)
nl

I am NL3, but gotta drop the twins off at playgroup, go to sainsburys, come back and study (and STAY AWAY from Mumsnet). Will be about later.

You could always email me on lovelymarslady at aol dot com. Incidentally I merely have middle class pretensions.

ditto - housework beckoning Mars - will catch you later - the agnst of secondary transfer will probably cost me my sanity. Is there something wrong with middle class pretensions wish we could afford them!!!
nl

ooops!!! angst - before the spelling police get me

ooops!!! angst - before the spelling police get me

Haven't read all of this thread, so apologies for repeating what anyone else has said. Unfortunately, even decisions taken purely for the benefit of your children do have a damaging effect on the education of others. Education is not a zero-sum game, and the middle class exodus from state schools deprives those schools of many pupils and parents who are motivated.

This book, "How not to be a hypocrite: School Choice for the morally perplexed parent", \link{http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415311179/102-7711041-8826519?v=glance&n=283155\is great reading}for anyone interested in the debate. Hope the link works, as the cut and paste looked a bit dodgy.

www - they don't all b*gger of to Clifton College do they.

My first ever 'love' (when I was 15 LOL) went there. His parents were filthy rich though - and his dad made the news when he died - as he left money to the hospital he died in to have the windows cleaned

It would be difficult to implement such a system even if everyone were willing to let their child go to a school chosen for them in order to contirbute to the greater good of society.

What ratio of middle class:working class children would be necessary in each school for this 'peer group effect' to work across the whole country? How would middle and working class be measured? In the study, it was measured using post codes. This wouldn't always work. Are there enough middle class children? What if all the different classess of children were shared out evenly into each school and there weren't enough mc children in each school to have this knock on effect on the other children?

BTW - I'm only using the middle class and working class terms because the newspaper article does.

Buut surely it's only the RESULTS that are better , rather than the education on offer? there is a difference. If a school is very well run, has excellent teachers etc, but pupils with little support etc, then able and / or well supported children in those schools will do better than if they were in a school with average teaching and the rsults merely refelcte the number of museums the kids get taken to at weekends?

I know there are other factors, like how much disrution goes on in the classroom, but it doesn't necessarily mean that good results as a reslut of good parental support equals better school, does it?

Imagine my surprise.

e.g amongst two very high performing primary schools in our borough, one has a very middle class intake where parents pull some stunts of dubious morality to get kids in. The other has a catchment which is almost entirely an estate with some well documented social problems. The first has slightly better results, but the second must be the better school, mustn't it?

IME it has bugger all to do with class and everything to do with the expectations of the parents.

I work in the state comp. Our intace is , on average, belove the national average of parental income and education level. However we do very well by the kids and they do very well for themselves. the reason? The parents care. these are mot middle class parents but simply paremts who want their children to do better than they did inschool and to have more options in life than they had.

FWIW, I went to a school just like it myself. My parenmts were both working class and they wanted us to do well and encouraged us.

It isn't class , it is attitude, values and standards. If paremnts value education, so do the kids. Simple as that.

IME it has bugger all to do with class and everything to do with the expectations of the parents.

I work in the state comp. Our intace is , on average, belove the national average of parental income and education level. However we do very well by the kids and they do very well for themselves. the reason? The parents care. these are mot middle class parents but simply paremts who want their children to do better than they did inschool and to have more options in life than they had.

FWIW, I went to a school just like it myself. My parenmts were both working class and they wanted us to do well and encouraged us.

It isn't class , it is attitude, values and standards. If paremnts value education, so do the kids. Simple as that.

middle class children for some reason do better in school hence a school with a high proportion of middle class children will out perform a school with few middle class children in the league tables

so "working class" children possibly need something different to gain as much benefit from school as middle class children get

just increasing the proportion of middle class children in a school will improve the school's performance but not necessarily the working class children's results

this is what I read in this research

Oh - I read that the results of wc pupils in a predominantly mc school would be improved.