DD going up to High School without her BF. I'm really sad...

[flapperghasted]

I know it's illogical. DD is 11 and has been mates with popgirl since they started primary. They have been best mates. They've always had other friends too, so it's not been too insular, but they have been best buds all that time.

Primary school is coming to an end, and kids are asked who they want to go up with, house-wise; 4 names of people they'd like to be with, and 2 names of people they don't want to go up with.

DD got 1 person from her list...a girl who is a good friend, but is really dependant on her. They have been good friends for the best part of this year and this girl's mum suggested strongly to the teaching staff that she wanted my dd and her dd to go up together because her dd has special needs (I know this both from the mum and from general discussions in the staff room about supporting the more vulnerable kids as I work in the school). The two girls get on great, and I'm glad that flappergirl has her with her. But they are so different, I don't see this friendship lasting long term.

Flappergirl also got one girl who she really doesn't get on with, who was on her 'don't' list. I get that this was likely to happen and I do wonder why they asked for this when it's bound to start looking like a popularity contest and some kids are bound to be put on the 'don't' list because they don't have the best social skills or contacts. Feels wrong really, but that's another gripe.

Today we found out dd isn't with her best friend, but her other two choices are with this girl. I feel irrationally gutted. Deep down I know that High School is the place where they make new friends and new links and the chances that the friendship would have continued in the same vein is unlikely. But it feels wrong. I feel like DD has been penalised because she's easy going...one of those wallpaper kids who just gets on and doesn't ever make a fuss.

Please...just tell me I'm being a numpty and I should get over myself.

Not where I live it isnt done. Kids make their own friends. They dont get buddied off.

The problem with buddying kids off this way is that it can leave some kids resentful. It can also lead to those who are buddied because of their dependency being ditched and left in a worse position.

Thats why you dont do social engineering like this Kids make their own friends. Its part of the learning curve to have to deal with making friends , losing friends and changing friends in school.

I have occassionally used the buddy system when I have a kid in class who is really out on a limb and alone. I have one at the moment - in school last two weeks of term and in my group. He doesnt speak English. I introduced him to a couple of decent lads and asked them to show him the ropes for a day or two. But I cannot expect them to "befriend" him beyond that.

What I have done is introduce him to all the guys in the class and now it has to be up to him to find those who are like him. Most of the lads are decent chaps and they will all make an effort to be friendly to a new boy but making friends ( as in best friends) is something you have to do yourself. It cant be school managed. Thats why I am so gobsmacked at the fact its being done.

To the Op - have you actually asked your DD how she really feels about this? Surely her needs come first?

It's interesting reading all these comments. They have tried to accommodate children's needs and matched them with people who are on their lists to some degree. They have focussed on the children who have SEN because they are the more vulnerable, so putting them with the children on their lists is always going to be a priority, and rightly so to some degree. I was told by the SEN child's mum that my girl was going to be with her dd before the results came out. It had been intimated to her during a review meeting. I'm not unhappy about that per se, but I am a bit mischuffed that dd didn't get anyone else off her list.

DD's needs do come first jabed and her feelings come first. She is ticked off that she hasn't been put with her best friend, but another mutual friend has. Apparently this other child is 'always' paired up with my dd's best friend. DD also said, 'why do they always put me with someone else??'. I suspect that's at least partly 11 year old histrionics, but she is feeling aggrieved.

Luckily, as with her dad, she's pretty laid back and when I stressed the positives, she said she feels o.k about the move and is sure she'll make friends. Problem is, she's not overly gregarious and though she has lots of acquaintances, she probably only has a couple of good friends and they are from when she was in Reception. You can look at this two ways. This is an opportunity for her to improve her friend making skills. Or you could, if you have had friendship issues yourself, worry about the fact that she might not!

tiggytape your system sounds so much better. At least with only 2 names on the list it would seem less unfair. Every kid would be guaranteed to get at least one of the names presumably. Instead, we have a few kids who've only got 1 person off their list and the rest have 3 or even 4!

What BodyofEeyore said, but meant much more gently. It will come as good this way as any other. She's not losing touch with her best friend at all. The social upheaval is huge in y7, anyway.

Luckily, as with her dad, she's pretty laid back and when I stressed the positives, she said she feels o.k about the move and is sure she'll make friends. Problem is, she's not overly gregarious and though she has lots of acquaintances, she probably only has a couple of good friends and they are from when she was in Reception. You can look at this two ways. This is an opportunity for her to improve her friend making skills. Or you could, if you have had friendship issues yourself, worry about the fact that she might not!

O would be doing the latter as well. Seems to me she is being used. Was she the only one who would acceptthe other girl and that is why she got left out of the broader friendship group where her friends got paired up together and she got a bunch of people she didnt ask for?? Just a thought.

But I am sure she will make new friends or go back to her old ones. Schools cannot dictate friendships. You make friends with those like yourself and I suspect her current buddies are not to her taste?

I would be mischuffed too. I would probably tell the school so too. But thats me - forthright to the last.

There is a fine line between being laid back and ending up a doormat. :(

Your dd is the lucky one! She can make friends with who she pleases in her new class. She won't feel she can't go off and make new friends incase she upsets the other friends. Some children get very clingy and possessive in yr 7, imagine if they were altogether and her friends wouldn't let her socialise because they didn't want to be alone, you'd be upset about THAT then wouldn't you?

I too am absolutely gobsmacked that the secondary school has asked this question, and therefore set up some kind of expectation.

All secondaries I know split children moving up from the same school.

Your dd will still be in the same school as her friends, many children aren't.
My dd (Yr8 now) was, by chance in the same form as one of her close friends from Primary, but they drifted apart very early in Yr7 - no falling out, just both made new friends. They were in different classes for different subjects, and, on their journeys into school became lose to others, and that's the way it often happens at secondary. You really are worrying more than you need about this.

I know you're all right. This is not as big as I think it is today and in a couple of months I'll be wondering what the heck I was worrying about!

I am a bit concerned that DD is a bit doormat-like. But I was outspoken to the point of obnoxiousness (is that a word?) and didn't have any friends as a result during school. I'm not daft enough to blame others. it was my own fault. I had a chip on my shoulder 4 miles wide.

DD is tactful, laid back, easy-going (well, with her friends anyway). Hopefully those qualities will help her mix better. She will need to stand up for herself a bit more in secondary school though...how the heck I get her to do that is beyond me, but one thing's for sure...I can't fight her battles for her once she's left Primary. And I was never overly fond of fighting her battles when she was there. I'm a big believer in making your kids independant, for all I'm weepy and over-protective today!

I will, however, tell dd's teacher that dd's not happy and neither am I. I will also question why she got put with one friend when the most sociable girl around was put with her 3 favourite friends. Bonkers imo.

That happened to me - got saddled with the one person from primary that drove me round the bend - at her mother's request. In an ideal world I would have been in a different class - but that's life. I survived, and made decent friends despite her best attempts to scupper it.

However, it all depends on how big the school is, and if they stream, and if so whether they run parallel classes. You might find your daughter is back with one or more of her friends in year 8. Also classes can join up for sports etc, so may still see them for an odd lesson. Also after school clubs are open to everyone and they can meet up then.

Long-term I'm not in touch with anyone from my primary - and my closest friends are from orchestra and university. Don't worry, I'm sure it'll be fine!

Thanks ohmygosh. I know I'm overthinking it, but I can't sleep tonight just mulling it over and over in my head. What I'm going to say to the teacher tomorrow...what I really think about it. I know I'm going to come across as one of 'those mums' if I say anything, and I work at the school too, which makes it doubly hard, but I feel like, if I don't say something, I'm letting my girl down. I guess I'm damned if I say something, damned if I don't!

I am sure the very best thing you can do for your dd is exactly what you're doing: recognising that you are two very different people and are unlikely to have the same lives.

I was very much like you: big chip on shoulder and stood out a mile. Both my dc are completely different: sociable, eager to get on with people, and rather successful in doing so.

What I've come to realise is how much of my perception of secondary schools- as a kind of jungle where you have to fight your way- was actually about me and the person I was, rather than about schools in general. Perhaps also about the particular children I went to school with. My own have neither tried nor needed to fight their way- they don't need to stand up for themselves because they are surrounded by nice people who like them. That can happen too.

Thanks cory. I am sure dd will be ok but I guess the irrational side of my brain has taken over here.

I've had words with the teacher this morning and it hasn't gone as well as I'd have liked. The teacher feels like I've criticised her role in this, rather than the system itself. She wants to talk to me later, but I'm done. I've said what I wanted to say and I'm done with it. Nothing either of us say is going to change things, so what's the point? Part of me wishes I hadn't said anything at all, but it's such a crappy system, I couldn't leave it unsaid. Hey ho...off to school to work now! That should be fun!!!!

One thing we found is that the actual class you were put in didn't have too much influence over actual friendships: class boundaries were crossed by the totally different lines of the sets, and friendships flourished in the school ground quite regardless of who went into what classroom. Dd's best friends aren't even all at the same school; they meet through outside hobbies and organise meet-ups themselves. Ds roams all over the area and meets up with boys from other schools. So much else happens in these years, classrooms are a small part of it.

Remember these children are growing up, they are getting more like adults. Do your friendships rely on working in the same room as every one of your friends?

But I do agree that the avoid list is vile.

flabberghasted-i can really understand how you feel and how you are struggling to unravel the rational concern from your own feelings and memories-I think they only resurface as our dc's go through the stages we went through and perhaps buried.(bit deep-but true).Like you,I had fears for my DD but ,like you,have to keep reminding myself she isn't me-and is more like her rock-steady dad.
You are right to speak to the school-these decisions do have consequences so you have a right to comment.Some of your thoughts and feelings are about your dd-some are about you. Knowing which is which is very hard but can help......good luck.

An 'avoid' list is awful...

In fact the more I think about it, the more I wonder whether it should just be alphabetical. Most of my year 10 dd's friends who she put down in year 6 have changed friendship groups, and had done by year 8. DD2 and her two best friends put each other as 1) and 2) in a circular policy, if that makes sense, on the theory that that way all three would be together.

However now if they are not together I guess one of them will think the others changed their minds at the last minute or something. And also by October they will doubtless have moved on.

Primary school should say if there is a bully and an bully-ee or two twins who work better separately or something - beyond that perhaps it would just be better to be random about it! So much bloody angst!

*I agree with you - the avoid list is awful. It is saying to a Year 6 child "hey you're off to secondary school and will mainly be making new friends but have you considered that some people are glad to see the back of you?"

I'd be very surprised, knowing Year 6 angst as I do at the moment, if it didn't spill over into the playground and other areas too along the lines "yeah well I wrote on my form that I definitely don't want to be with YOU!"*

I have to agree with that too. As I said I was " gobsmacked" ( not a word I use generally but it sounded better than a simple surprised.

Where I am we tend to allocate classes by the alphabet - splitting the class one on one to the different groups. However, because we are a small school, sometimes we only have one year anyway so ,youmay well be stuck with all your friends and not so friends from prep.

But the avoid list is not nice.

Dd1 went to a school with only 5 of the total class of 48. She was placed in a class with one of the girls, at the request of the mother. She had actually fallen our wih this girl by the time of the induction day.

However, she quickly made friends, and now has a wide circle of friends (including the one she had fallen out with, although they are not very close friends.)

Dd2 on the other hand, will be on a class with 3 of her 4 best friends. The other is going to another school. I am actually a bit sad that she may not get the option to mix with girls she doesn't yet know, as DD1 has been able to do.

I was bullied at secondary school, too, so I understand your concern tha this could happen to your DD. but schools are much more proactive in ensuring That bullying is nipped in he bud, than in my day.

Thanks so much everyone. This is Mumsnet at its best. My daugther has been an absolute star today and has asked me not to complain any more in case she gets moved. She's said, "well, I'm not with my best friends, but that just means I'll be able to make new friends. And any way, I'm only going to secondary school to work. Being with old friends would just be distracting "

She's got more common sense in her little finger than I've got in my head and all the teachers involved in this have in theirs! She is a lovely girl and I'm sure she'll be fine.

Great news-what a star! We do worry for them- we have to remember they are not us and it is not our story. We watch from the wings and chew our nails..... and they'll fly-and deal with stuff!