The best Independent schools generally take the highest qualified teachers?

[Hamishbear]

It might be obvious to many that the most academic schools insist that their teachers have an outstanding degree from one of the best universities but it wasn't to me.

For example if you want a job in Maths at Guildford High school allegedly you need a first in Maths from a well regarded university. You obviously need to be an outstanding teacher in the fullest sense too.

So do the elite schools usually have the best teachers? I suppose it stands to reason that there is more competition for jobs at schools that have a fantastic reputation?

Jabed- if I am making other people's views generalisations, then so are you. You do exactly the same as I do- you contribute to the thread by offering your own opinions and experiences. I am not denying that Tom Daly was bullied. I am merely saying that not all talented kids are bullied in state schools. Just as I would imagine that some talented kids are bullied in independent schools.

I love your "we came through for him" comment, by the way. Who exactly is this "we"? Tom Daly didn't end up at your school, did he? And either way, whichever school he went to before or after Bejing, he didn't learn to dive at school, which was the point I was trying to make.

NYO is expensive, but many seats are supported by charitable organisations/individuals.
From their website...

" As soon as you become a member you may apply for financial assistance for course fees which for NYO 2013 are £1600. Every year, a number of people take up places for free or at a reduced rate depending on their financial circumstances. The NYO is also able to help with travel costs to and from attendance at courses and offers suggestions for obtaining funds from other organisations. We believe that no member/potential member should be denied access to NYO membership or audition for financial reasons"

I love your "we came through for him" comment, by the way. Who exactly is this "we"? Tom Daly didn't end up at your school, did he? And either way, whichever school he went to before or after Bejing, he didn't learn to dive at school, which was the point I was trying to make

"We" as in the independent sector - which is where I work. I do work at one of the schools who offered TD a place and we would have loved to have him. He chose another school nearer to his home (and that is fine and good). It is a good school.

Whatever, the why and wherefore of TD ......

I also find it interesting that I teach or have taught a significant number of children who are the offspring of famous footballers (particularly footballers), actors and similar who as you point out may themselves have gone to state schools. It seems that for all state school may have in your view been good enough for them; they do not think it is good enough for their DC's
.
That I suppose they share in common with ordinary people like me they may have found their own state education wanting and have chosen to take another route.

The sector as a whole came through for him?

I found my state education wanting. But it was a long time ago. To say I need another route based on what I had in the late eighties and nineties would be silly.

The sector as a whole came through for him?

In so far as the sector is an identifiable whole. I didnt see any state schools rushing to suggest they could help. I do know there were a number of offers from good independent schools. All full scholarships. All good schools. All top facilities - and all with an ethos where a DC can be safe and will not be threatened for being a hard working and outstanding pupil in any field.

OSN - so why do you think so many state educated footballers and others chose independent schools then?

I suppose its because you think those blokes are silly is it?

It's all pretty simple. Most women aren't bright enough or don't pick careers which are well paid enough to buy their children a good education so they make do with state schools. Women who can afford to pay fees tend to be pretty happy with the schools they choose.

If you can't afford it there is not much point in worrying about how much better many private schools are although you could look at what you might do to earn enough to pay fees, set up a business etc etc.

I have never had a bullied child although I don't expect that's to do with their being in the private sector as children can be pretty nasty to each other in most places. They have just been lucky or very robust or whatever.

Xenia,

I don't 'make do with state schools'.

As it happens, where I live, all the state schools are better academically than the independents (despite the latter being nationally known). So I send my children to a state school because IT IS BETTER.... We could (as a couple, because we believe in joint parenting and joint parental responsibility), if required, pay the fees to a private school at some sacrifice but while still eating. We choose not to because what we would buy is WORSE than what we get for free.

Please stop making such generalisations. Not all state schools are better than all private schools - but nor is the reverse true.

I had a girl in my class (state school ) who swam in the Olympics of the time- she was very popular and not bullied.

I don't 'make do' with state schools. I could be Head of BP - I would still choose a good state school. As it is I have no intention of getting on some treadmill of highly paid work just to pay school fees . I only get one life so I want to do something that is interesting and worthwhile to me.

Exactly ,teacherwith2kids, mine have got where they wanted for free.

They wouldn't have done anything different had I paid - they are on their first choice of career.

Jabed "I didn't see any state schools rushing..." You are funny. Imagine what might have happened if someone like Tom Daly had been educated in the state system. No hope of olympic medals there then. Oh, hang on...

"A third of British athletes taking part in the London 2012 Olympics will be privately educated, despite the Government spending more than a £1 billion to encourage state school pupils to become international athletes. "..

"In the last three Olympic games, an average of 50 per cent of medal winners were educated at public school.
At the Beijing Games just two years ago, 37 per cent of those who brought home medals had some form of private education. "

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/7132024/Third-of-British-2012-Olympic-athletes-privately-educated.html

(free, not "for free" - which I hope all good schools in state and private sector teach)

I'm with exoticfruits, btw. I can afford private school for my DTDs. I choose to send them to the local, outstanding, primary. Assuming they continue to do as well as they do (they're only 6), they will sit the 11+. Our local grammar is highly sought after. Why would I spend money on school fees?

So, Xenia, two thirds were state educated? And 50% at Beijing were state educated? And 63% of medal winners were state educated?

So the state educated competitors were more likely to win a medal?

Statistics, eh?

Imagine what might have happened if someone like Tom Daly had been educated in the state system

yes, I am imaging it - what would have happened had he continued at his state school perhaps - He may have gotten his legs broken by one of those who threatened him and he would be competing in the para olympics? Or he may have given in to the bullies and not be competing at all?

Jabed.

1. He was already an Olympic medal winner, so being at a state school did not hinder his success.
2. He did not learn to dive at school.

Are you getting my point?

Xenia,

I will take your posts seriously when you actually address the comments of others, rather than

1. Asserting your opinion to be 'universally true' without any foundation.
2. Changing the subject should your mistakes / ignorance / prejudice be exposed or should you be required to actually support your assertions.

I do appreciate that both the above may be useful in your job, though I presume that they leave you very open to challenge by other parties, as prevarications and avoidance of the material points of others are not characteristics I would look for in a good legal professional....

Jabed "I didn't see any state schools rushing..." You are funny.

Thank you , it was meant to be slightly humorous. However , the serious side here: whilst I do not know Plymouth , I know itsa city ,and I am sure it has more than one state school. So, why was it none of the others were able to make arrangements for the lad?

Where Tom Daly is educated is surely not the point, as his Olympic success is in a sport not taught in schools.

No teacher can claim his success as their own - and no school should, either. The success is down to him, and to his coaches, and to his parents who have supported him at considerable sacrifice to themselves. Swimming / diving is, luckily, a sport available to the majority of people in the community fairly easily as most facilities for doing it are publicly owned and open to anyone at low cost - not the case for e.g. hockey, athletics etc, let alone equestrian sports.

*1. He was already an Olympic medal winner, so being at a state school did not hinder his success.

1. He did not learn to dive at school.

Are you getting my point?*

I have your point. Are you getting mine? If he had remained in a state school, it could have ended his career? Wherever he learned to dive, his school was making his life difficult and this was going to impact on his achievements.

You can't possibly know that they didn't. Stop being ridiculous.

Again, you can't possibly know that.

I may be cynical, but even the most naive person would see that Tom Daly would be a catch for any school. A 14 yr old Olympian? Of course independent schools were desperate to take him in. Do you not think that the kudos of having such a student was more of an incentive than mere concern for his welfare?

Jabed -if he had remained IN THAT PARTICULAR STATE SCHOOL, it may have ended his career.

Nobody here is claiming that all state schools are wonderful, in the same way as I hope that you and Xenia are not claiming that all private schools are wonderful.

You cannot use bullying of a successful sports personailty in a single school to support an assertion that successful young sports men and women cannot be very well educated in the state school.

There may have been other state schools willing to take him - do you know whether his family approached any others?