Is it hypocrital to be against private schools as a matter of principle and be in favour of Oxbridge?

[PooshTun]

In the last few weeks there have been various threads about private education and a number of posters turned up to say that they were against private education because it was socially unfair and because it lacked diversity.

Fair enough but some posters then go on to say that the went to a comp and that didn't stop them from going onto Oxbridge while others go on about how they aspire for DC to go to Oxbridge.

Am I the only one that thinks that this smacks of hypocrisy? It is generally acknowledged that Oxbridge favours the middle classes especially those from a GS and private/public school background. Some companies that I know of exclusively recruit their fast track graduates from Oxbridge. Just look at our political leaders and where they went.

Oxbridge is one of the most exclusive and privileged clubs around. How can you be against sending to your DC to the indie down the road while being an Oxbridge graduate yourself or while aspiring for DC to gain entry to Oxbridge?

Private school entry is based on money while Oxbridge is based on merit, I hear you say. Tell that to the working class kids that don't get in despite having great grades.

Private school kids are all full of well off kids whereas Oxbridge has a diversified student base I hear you say. The place is full of mega rich kids from the UK and overseas. Not to mention the private school kids you are so keen to avoid.

We could start with the OP. WHilst I am in no way querying a word of it, I wonder whether you could back up these statements, to be going on with, as it would just be useful to have the facts and figures:

some posters then go on to say that the went to a comp and that didn't stop them from going onto Oxbridge while others go on about how they aspire for DC to go to Oxbridge. could you say who?

It is generally acknowledged that Oxbridge favours the middle classes

Some companies that I know of exclusively recruit their fast track graduates from Oxbridge.

the working class kids that don't get in despite having great grades.

The place is full of mega rich kids from the UK and overseas

As I say, I'm not querying any of that, and I'm sure it's all backed up with peer-reviewed sources, so if you could just pop them in, that would be super. Ta!

PooshTun

Using your analogy of the Mercedes and the Kia lot depends what you want to do. A little Kia can be a great run around town and has lower insurance preimiums. It is also economical with fuel. A Mercedes is more expensive, but looks better and is more comfortable for longer journeys.

Thames Valley offers some great degrees if you want to do something like nursing, midwivery or social work. A lot of ex polys organise a year in industry for courses like computing.

Yellowtip - Do you accept that there are international rankings by reputable sources that places other UK universities over Oxbridge in some subject areas?

And as I said above I am not in a position to make a sweeping statement about whether one highly selective uni is superior to another. That seems to be your area of expertise :o

Why do you persist in making a sweeping statement with nothing to back it up beyond your own personal opinion and then placing the onus on me to to prove that your generalisation is not true?

In a manner it is Poosh, so I'm not sure what the is about. I can't help you much beyond drawing the logical inference from:

1. The initial selection process.
2. The comparitive teaching method.
3. The stamina it takes to complete a degree given that method (no place to hide).
4. The rigour of the marking process and the high standards required.

Some people love lists, some love stats. Some aren't particularly convinced by either.

Really - The reason why I singled out Thames Valley is that my niece got terrible A level results a few years ago and got Thames Valley via clearing. The fact that they were offering her a place on a degree course with grades DEE says it all. In the end she elected to resit her A levels.

I take your word for it that they offer great degrees in nursing and social work but in terms of core degrees, Thames Valley sucks. That wasn't how the Guide to UK Universities put it but it kind of captures what they spent a whole page saying :)

Yellow - If I remember correctly from your previous posts, you are involved in admissions at Oxford. Correct?

Yellow - You do realise that you've just admitted that making sweeping statements is your area of expertise? Just checking :o

"Some people love lists, some love stats. Some aren't particularly convinced by either"

I take it that this means that you accept that these rankings exist and that you don't attach much importance to them.

"Silvertip was the one..."

Heh, what an excellent metaphor for your posts on this thread, PooshTun.

You produce vast acreage claiming "other people are saying X"... but somehow aren't quite right in your representations of them. Perfect!

TOSN - I'm posting from a smart phone while filing in dead time in between appointments with clients so a lengthy reply complete with the results from trawling through days of threads to note who said what and then pasting them into a comprehensive reply is not do-able.

Even if it was do-able, you over estimate my desire to expend all this effort to win the argument with my fellow MNetters :)

In any case, you are mostly asking me to provide proof of stuff that is widely accepted even by Yellow. I mean, one only has to read upthread to see posts about about the admissions make up of those who are studying at Oxbridge.

Sorry Yellowtip I was busy painting (ceilings not landscapes). If you questioned the determined student, I know of one who wanted to work for a company who didn't usually recruit from her Uni. She basically sta
Key them, turning up at "meet the employer" events where-ever she could get to. Really got to know the recruiters and what they were looking for, and ensured she could offer it. But you would have to be really determined to copy her.
I also have met employers that only recruited from one University, including one that only recruited from Oxford.

Not all degrees are equal. Oxbridge isn't necessarily the best always, it depends on the subject and maybe even the area of the subject.

Who wouldn't be in favour of Oxbridge. Any person can go if they get in. I am not against private schools but don't like the grammar school set up as it divides children from far too early an age. That's my opinion.

People who go to state schools get in Oxford or Cambridge. People who do medicine and law have gone to state schools. If parents choose to educate their children privately and they think they will do better then that's their choice.

Wrong again Poosh. I've never posted on any thread that I'm a current Oxford tutor.

I'm impressed by the ceilings mummytime. Interesting about the determined graduate too. But no I meant the difference in degrees. Completely agree that one needs to look at the subject closely along with the awarding uni, there are always going to be exceptions and caveats to the broader rule.

Silvertip - I said that I seem to recall you saying that you was involved in admissions and you replied with the comment that I was wrong again because you never said you was a tutor?????

I didn't say that I thought you was a tutor.

PissTake I also have never posted that I'm involved in Oxford admissions. An Oxford tutor said she knew I was, but that doesn't mean I am. That was months ago. You haven't seriously been trawling through all sorts of old posts? Boy, how dull.

I'm sure I've posted that I went to a comp and then to Cambridge. I've also definitely posted that all universities are not considered equal in my profession, or at my city firm. I am most emphatically not opposed to state selective education though. I am not convinced that many private schools offer any educational advantages over the best state grammars. They clearly offer social advantages (and some disadvantages).

As an aside, I am certain that the IT support people in my firm neither know nor care what universities I and other senior people attended, or what degrees we did. The same would go for the new recruits. Why would IT support know anything about that? They aren't members of our huge HR department.

Yellowtip - It's just that you speak so authoritatively about Oxford and its admissions practices that I naturally assumed that you was part of the process.

Now I find that you have no professional connection with Oxford and that your sweeping statements isn't even based on actual first hand knowledge :o

I don't think you should make any assumptions about anyone on these threads Poosh and if they don't want to say how they come by their knowledge of whatever the subject in hand is, then it's probably against the guidelines to push. It's up to anyone reading posts to see if they make sense or whether they appear to be ii-informed prejudice. I merely said what I hadn't said; you can't read anything into that.

that should read ill-informed.

I've also been surprised that someone in IT support has access to all the CVs.

Meta - When I read your post it reminded me of the Michael J Fox movie 'The Secret of my Success'. He is a Suit. We are Mail Room. Mail Room do not talk to Suits :-)

At our firm we recruit 'ordinary' graduates to fill the HR, IT, back office jobs. It is not unknown for 'where did you study?' to be used as a ice breaker at a social do where, God Forbid, we get to chat to 'senior' staff.

We also recruit a handful of fast track people who will be groomed to be the next generation of international business leaders. It's not exactly a corporate security that this stream is exclusively recruited from Oxbridge and occasionally from Harvard.

I did find your comment about people not caring where you got your degree from a bit of a non sequitur. I didn't think that I made a claim that they did.

The only fast track I am on is the one for the pastries tray so it makes no difference to me which uni my firm favours. I was merely making an observation as opposed to expressing resentment.

@Yellowtip -:o at your surprise that anyone in IT has access to people's CVs. Being IT we obviously don't have access to the computer files stored on the servers that we support :o :o

damn auto correction. I of course meant that its not a corporate secret.

yellow the IT crowd know everyhting . DH calls them Mossad.

Mossad .

Even a technophobe like me knows that the IT people can snoop. But why don't they stick to their day job and do some bloody IT?