Do your DC do volunteering work?

[PooshTun]

At the breakfast table this morning I was reading my local paper and I came across an ad for the volunteering services centre. On the xth a number of local charity groups will be at y to sign on teenage volunteers for the summer. Volunteering, goes the ad, can 'help your child boost their cv and personal statement'.

I accept that many people volunteer because they are genuine. However, I am cynical enough to believe that some parents include volunteering as part of a strategy to build an impressive cv for their DCs.

Is anyone brave enough to own up to the latter?

And do Uni admission panels really attach any weight to this?

I mean, we use to laugh at Miss World contestants who go on about their charity work with Third World children while dressed in a £1,000+ gown.

There was as film I watched once(or maybe it was an episode of friends ), haven't a clue what it was, but the general gist was nobody does anything for someone else with out getting something back.

You either volunteer because you enjoy what you are doing, and find helping others rewarding, or it aids your CV, or both.

DC! couldn't care a jot about those he doesn't already know. He does care about his CV. If I have to persuade him to volunteer by saying it will look good on his CV, then I will.

Why do I want him to volunteer? Because I think it will make him a more rounded person, not that I care deeply about the people he will be helping. We all have a motive.

12yo DS is supposed to do some voluntary hours to get his "community" badge for scouts.

Can't comment on Uni admissions in UK; in USA it could potentially be important for Ivy League/highly selective Unis; but doesn't have to be volunteering to impress admissions, just has to be something non-academic the applicant are very good at; Ivy League seeks undergrads who excel at everything they try & who try lots of quite different things.

Xenia - I'm not saying that its wrong for parents to help their DCs.

I'm just making the point that I can see why some less well off parents think that their DCs are disadvantaged by their economic status.

When I was a kid advisers would emphasize the need to show that you are a team player and how being the captain or a prefect is good to have on your application. Being elected by your peers to be house captain showed leadership qualities and so on. Today the emphasis seem to be on volunteer work and the more exotic the better. It has got to the point where helping at an old people's home in Slough isn't good enough. It has to be at at orphanage in Cambodia for example.

I have recruitment responsibilities but the positions I fill are for experienced staff so what they did during their gap year is of no importance at this stage but I an aware that the graduate recruitment team do favour candidates with exotic volunteering experiences. And no, digging water wells in Malawi isn't going to male you a better derivatives trader :o

Lynette - Have a for your honesty.

There is no evidence that universities will be more impressed by someone building bridges in Africa than somebody sorting clothes in the local charity shop or reading to old ladies in the nursing home or setting up a local drama group in your back bedroom or even holding down an ordinary weekend job in a supermarked. Noone is too poor to do that.

As Xenia says, they are looking for basic qualities of reliability and initiative. Being sent across the world by rich mummy and daddy doesn't prove you have those; it just proves you have a rich mummy or daddy, and as they won't be writing your final essay, the university wont care one way or another.

As somebody who works in a university, I'd say it has absolutely not got to the point where helping out in the old people's home in Slough is not good enough

If anything, I would say it has got to a point where interviewers have come across so many exotic non-experiences that they have got cynical about that whole holiday-masquerading-as-work thing. If there is even a whiff of "I am a spoilt kid who expects to have everything served on a plate" about an application, ime that is far more likely to make the intervewers as a few more searching questions. Exoticism is definitely not an asset in itself.

And Poosh, the only reason I mentioned your children's activities is because you brought them up on a thread discussing the value of voluntary work. That was what I thought funny, that you should find that kind of activity worth mentioning at all.

Cory - I work at a major bank in the City and, although I don't agree with it, a cv with lots of exotic volunteering work is what the bank looks for, at least as far as graduates are concerned.

The bank is fully aware that some applicants have self serving motives but its not something that is of concern. Working on a project in Vietnam is supposed to demonstrate dynamism. Working at a hospice a bus ride from your parent's home doesn't. I have no reason to believe that these aren't common attitudes at other major banks.

I am not in a position, unlike you :o , to make a sweeping statement. All I can is that in my experience City firms that recruit for high flying graduate positions encourage their applicants to have a broad range of interests and this includes a record of exotic volunteering work.

You may be approaching this from the wrong angle Poosh and conflating distinct moments of young people's lives.

By the time undergraduates are making their applications to City institutions, many will have had the opportunity to join university sponsored charitable expeditions in their long holidays. The expeditions I've come across require not a penny from parents and volunteers are often required to undergo a rigorous selection process. The end purpose of such ventures is entirely laudable. The universities don't sink funds into charitable ventures to give students a leg up into the commercial world - why would they?

The voluntary work done at a hospice or charity shop or any sort of work with local children is the sort of thing undertaken at an earlier stage in their lives and most likely never features on applications for graduate trainee positions unless that candidate has very little else to say for himself.

Which isn't to say that local, less glam volunteering earlier on isn't a very big good in itself, because it certainly is. Especially for those with the character to stick with it for more than a couple of weeks..

There are two different themes on the thread - university entrance and what helps on the UCAS form/personal statement and what looks good on a CV at new graduate level for top level jobs. Children wanting that route to work (rather than to work in their local Tescos where if they can add up and turn up to work on time that is just about all you need and many can do neither) need to pass through both hurdles.

The universities want someone passionate about their subject who will get the grades. Plenty of people don't get all As despite what you see in the press. Indeed I think half children in the UK do not even get 5 GCSEs at A - C grade never mind a levels. Most middle class parents try to ensure their children do things in addition to work. We are a musical family so they tend to get 2 or 3 grade 8s, finals of music competitions, in choirs etc and plenty of very good sport but as long as there are hobbies (which can be hard to have if you have no money and spend all your spare time caring for younger siblings or a disabled mother of course whatever your income level) I don'tt hink it matters whether it's voluntary work, Prefect at school, best violinists in the county or whatever.

I do think some recruiters like sport. My older 3 children have rarely mentioned that an interviewer has asked them about all their music but they have often been asked about things like riding, sking, sports organisations they help run, running and particularly team sports. However if you were the world's best bridge player I would have thought that would stand out as much as that you play rugby every weekend. You just need something that makes it clear you have commitment, can turn up to things, can take charge of things (if it is a job which needs leadership skills) and can get on with other people. Some people have no social skills and can barely communicate and vast numbers of teenagers spend every spare minute playing computer games or watching DVDs. Hardly anyone will put on their personal statement my main hobby is masturbating or porn or playing World of Warcraft or going clubbing or getting very drunk or taking cocaine even though those may well be the principal hobby of many teenagers because unviersities and employers not surprisingly want someone with different kinds of hobbies.

Yellowtip - I'm not in a position to comment on how much importance, if any, university admission panels place on volunteering work.

All I am saying is that my local charities obviously believe that it is a selling point where teenagers and their parents are concerned.

And judging from comments made by parents pushier than myself in the Real World, there are some who believe that it will reflect positively on their DCs as far as UCAS is concerned.

As for where graduate recruitment is concerned, yes there will be opportunities at University so in theory its a level playing field but your average student will more likely be going for a paid summer job in order to reduce their student loan.

As another poster said upthread, some people are too poor to volunteer.

No-one is too poor to volunteer. Some just don't want to or don't have the energy or commitment to.

Voluntary work should be just that, voluntary, because the volunteer wants to volunteer not because he's been made to.

I've read a fair amount of bollocks on mn, but 'too poor to volunteer' has to be the best example today.

Clearly from your jolly high perch in a top bank you haven't made it as far as the local volunteer centre, where frequently the only people who put sustained effort into helping others are the ones who are definitely not well off. how the other half live, eh?

Volunteer centres are so desperate for bodies to lend a hand doing so many thing that state funding funding has been cut for, to keep charities afloat and stop up the gaps, that they will use any logical advertising to try to encourage people to do something for others for a change. And if they have to do that by suggesting material gain to the individual, who cares? (apart from you, clearly you have fuck all else to worry about)

I cannot believe you are so tragically cynical that you fucking around picking holes in a volunteer centre advert. Attacking the voluntary sector? Really? Really? How fucking low can you actually get?

Get your arse off mn and do something for someone else for a change, instead of trying to stir up nonsense about parents who encourage their dc's to volunteer, whatever their motives.

What volunteering do you do, poosh? Just shit stirring on here to drop volunteer numbers further? Great community action. Well done you.

There are certainly some groups of people in the UK (at all income levels) who will do nothing for nothing ever and just want to take take take. Not surprisingly most employers don't want that kind.

However as I said above there will be some young people who are caring for sick relatives or have 2 paper rounds to buy food for younger siblings who genuinely don't have time.

Fair enough, Poosh, you are talking about banks and I am talking about universities, so maybe the situation is genuinely different. But that wasn't clear from your OP.

What universities tend to look for ime is signs that prospective students can commit to something and work hard at it. Whether that is voluntary work or paid work or music or caring is less important: it is the attitude that matters. Music above a certain level is generally well regarded because it is recognised that you do need commitment to play an instrument well.

Yellowtip - I'm not talking about volunteering in isolation.

I made the point that City firms look for graduates obviously with good degrees but also with a history of exotic volunteering work.

You made the point that universities these days provide an opportunity for ALL undergrads to acquire these experiences so no one is at a disadvantage.

I am simply making the point that most undergrads, because of economic necessity, will have to take paid summer jobs. Thus it will tend to be the kids from well off families that will be working at the African hospital for children with AIDS for example.

Yes, no one is too poor to spare a few hours a week to help out at a charity store for example but when companies like mine look to recruit the next generation of high flyers they will be favouring graduates like your DC

I encouraged DS2 to volunteer because, unlike DS1, he was not socially rounded enough. DS1 held 2 paper rounds from the age of 13 and worked weekends from the age of 16 in a department store, whilst studying at sixth form during the week (very motivated by money). DS2 is a very different character - lacks confidence and is fairly shy. I thought the voluntary work experience would help develop his character and he was and still is happy to go along with it. Left to his own devices, however, I doubt he would have instigated it.

madwoman - It really cracks me up when posters totally mis read a post and then get foul mouthed about it in a lengthy diatribe.

I was making a comment about how some pushy parents pack their kids cv with strategic activities that they think will impress university admissions panel, activities like volunteering, the more exotic the better.

How can you read my post and conclude that I was bashing charities and the well meaning people who volunteer often with little or no recognition?

My DD volunteers at a charity shop and will help out at RDA scheme this summer. She has enjoyed doing this and if it helps on her cv and ucas form, I don't see the harm. If she could get a paid summer job, that would be great but they are in short supply.

Poosh, you're simply making assumptions. Do you have current experience of which undergrads volunteer and which don't? False premise I'd say. The least well off students at my DCs' university get significant additional grants. They may choose to have a summer job to pay off loans upfront or they may choose to take advantage of the opportunities while they're at university and defer their repayment as they're quite entitled to do. They've got years to do it; grabbing opportunities while you can is an attribute to value as well. And casting my mind over those who volunteered for DD1's programme I can certainly say that they weren't primarily DC of Fat Cat's. I'd hazard a guess that a lot of those volunteering around the university in the myriad of charitable programmes currently operating, there will be many who have never even set eyes on a Fat Cat.

DD1 is sorted in a Magic Circle firm thanks Poosh, DD2 is far too unworldy to go anywhere near the City, it would make her beautiful skin come out in spots and DD3 is intending to avoid the City also, except as a fall back option if all else fails. DS1 is going to med school so won't need to catch your eye either and the others are not quite there yet. So I think we may not need to trouble you in the event.

Blame those self same universities that taught me to read between the lines.

Whatever your intent, you were being critical of volunteer centres desperately seeking volunteers by pandering to what you view as parental ambition.

But glad to have amused. I'm sure the ad writer feels the same way.

And actually double bollocks since DD1 managed to land her job offer with an eye-watering starter salary with no history whatever of exotic volunteering experience. So how did that work?

The old Duke of Edinburgh started a good idea. Any DofE programme is worthwhile. But volunteering to help in any worthwhile way is a great habit to start at a young age. It needn't cost anything except time and well placed effort. And keeping a simple diary of dates and thoughts on both how it benefits people together with what the volunteer learns along the way might come in useful at some later point.

Yuh. Maybe you're just experiencing an ethical dilemma of working for a shallow employer?

Maybe a career change to something more personally meaningful, rather than continuing to take a wage from an organisation that sets store by such frippery?

It must be hard for you, with having such a conscience and all.

Yellowtip - I said that I am in no position to comment on what weight University admissions panel place on volunteering. How does that translate into me making assumptions about undergrads?

I commented on what my employer and other banks that I know about look for in their fast track graduates so please point to where I make a generalisation about ALL employers?

Some of you ladies are so determined to start a bun fight

madwoman - Have you only just realised that banks don't have nice, touchy feely people in charge? :o