Please Talk to Me About Scholarship for a Private Senior School...

[rockinhippy]

DD is currently year 4, so as I've not dealt with Senior School at all yet - I've no idea if this is something I should be looking at NOW & if not, WHEN should I start making enquiries/getting her name down etc

I'm wondering if I'm slow & need to act now, as I've heard on the grapevine that one of DDs classmates already has a place at our local Private School

Also how does the Scholarship system work ?? - & what if anything improve her chances of qualifying?? - out of school interests perhaps ??

I've been led to believe that as DD is considered G&T level, this will help with Scholarship - is that right ??

We are still torn between going this route & our local state schools - though I doubt we can afford private on DHs wages - my earning power is better, but unfortunately my health isn't, so we rely on him - hoping this can change, but sadly I can't bank on that anymore :(

We are very lucky that the only 2 in our catchment area are both known to be excellent Schools - BUT I've heard recently that one has a bad reputation for how it deals with bullying around here, we don't really get a choice - you put your preference, but Schools are allocated.

DD has been a target of bullying several times already, even from her group of friends sadly pretty & clever etc makes her a target :( - so this is a big worry, especially she has health problems that flare up due to this sort of stress (IBS) this can mean she misses school or is ill at school, so naturally affects her ability to do as well as she can at School - though thankfully she's ahead enough that so far its not held her back.

She is very feisty, so for the most part copes pretty well with bullying & already has some pretty good coping skills that she has worked out for herself, :) BUT it does still make her ill - hence why we are considering going this route as hopefully we then DO have a choice of a School that does deal well with bullying - the private School is also a short walk from our house - the others a bus ride away - which could be of benefit as she often gets very tired (not yet diagnosed but have my suspicions) & a shorter day could help there when exam stress etc kicks in - she never gets stressed by exams/schoolwork - just unkind DCs

So I'd be very grateful for any info you can give me on this please

TIA

Well, I know very little about this but as no-one else has answered I will chuck a few thoughts out there

Have you been to the school's website? That should have all the details for timescale of applications etc.

I think you want a bursary (awarded on the grounds of being the sort of child the school wants but unable to afford the fees) rather than a scholarship (a smaller amount of money awarded on the grounds of doing brilliantly in the exams and more likely to go to prep school pupils, I'd guess). Again, the school website should have a bit more info.

It would also be worth checking the reputation of the private school as regards pressure to get results, and bullying (is it all-girl?). I know you say your DD isn't stressed so much by academic stuff and exams, but that might be different in the future. Especially if it's a very academic environment with everyone high-achieving...

And with respect to the state schools it seems your main concern is how one of them deals with bullying? In the OFSTED report there is a survey thing at the end, one of the questions they ask is about 'feeling safe at achool'. Might be any idea to look at the answers to that, to get a wider feel for kids' experience at the school? Because local gossip is neither here nor there, really, unless you know the parents and children involved personally.

Thanks for the reply, actually lots of help there :) - & my not even knowing the correct terminology makes me realise just how green I am with all this stuff

I've just checked the state school ofsted as you suggest & though good, it does seem to back up the "gossip" as in comments about the School needing to improve its communication with parents over concerns raised & the pupils feeling safe in school figures, though not bad, aren't brilliant either.

that said we do know DC who goes there, & they've had no problems, though as lovely as they are, knowing them well & having met lots of their school friends, I would say they are less likely to be targets, than in with the groups who bully IYSWIM.

We know lots more at our other SS & they all love the School & it seems very suited to DDs aptitudes & interests, but we have no choice anymore, so no guarantees she'll get in there :(

Private School is mixed & again known to be good with DCs of DDs particular aptitudes & interests & we probably have a better chance of getting a place there presuming the "bursary" is down to how well the DCs fit that particular School & how clever they are ???

I'm glad I asked now, as feel I need to swot up on the correct terminology BEFORE I approach the PS & make myself look dim

Rockinhippy, don't worry about the terminology you will soon know all if you look at websites. I have 3 dcs but 2 are much older and alot of terminology has changed along with the curriculum, so learning whole new system with dd, lol.I do think it is important to keep up with nc and what the levels mean though as this is more important imo.

Are you hoping a scholarship will carry some sort of financial reward? You will find that most now only carry either no or little financial reward I suspect by the time you DD is old enough to go to your chosen school this will apply even more than now. But getting a scholarship means you're more likely to get a bursary.
My advise is find an indpendent school you think would suit your DD and then enquire about bursaries and scholarships there are schools which offer generous bursaries unattached to a scholarships. There are two rules about scholarships the more academic the school is the higher the requirement will be for a scholarship and to get a scholarship into a super selective you not only have to be very very bright but also be prepared to work really really hard.
AssumIng your not looking for yr 9 entry I suspect most parents looking for yr 7 entry will have already got a school in mind by yr 5 but as nearly all interviews entrance exams take place in yr 6 they would be unlikely to have a definite place.
HTH

Scholarships nowadays tend to be a couple of hundred quid at the start of Y7 and dc's name in gilt on a board either in the hall or a corridor wall somewhere so it would have to be a bursary, in which case they will want your child to have something 'value added' which may mean coming in top 10% of the exams, or excellence in drama/art/sports/music etc. If they are going to give you money they want the very best achievements possible before they part with a penny.

Can I just say that bullying is not the sole preserve of the state school system. I know equally as many kids who have been to private school and been pretty nastily bullied as at state and often the private schools want to brush it under the carpet as quickly and quietly as possible without addressing it at all so do look up the private school of choice's report with the ISI (www.isi.net) and see what it says in the ISI's latest report about pastoral care and the like.

rockinhippy - I think maybe it has changed over the years? People still talk about going to private school 'on a scholarship', but I they seem to mean a bursary. My kids are state, and always likely to be, but I was idly flicking through the website of the local private, to see if DS was ever likely to get a 'scholarship'.
It mentioned something like, 'If your prep school doesn't do Greek, it is OK to just do the Latin scholarship paper' and I thought WTF?! And that is when I found out the difference between a bursary and a scholarship

Does your DD do anything like yoga to help with her stress levels? There are some good kids' classes around nowadays... I guess if you truly are a hippy you have probably looked into it already!

Scholarships are worth 25% off fees at the upper school DS is going to (both the academic and sports scholarships), and 50% of the fees at his current Prep.

Many independent schools used to offer 100% scholarships (I was offered one myself back in the 80's), however, as posters say above, bursaries seem to be the way forward. 1/3 of families at the school he is going to, receive some form of financial assistance.

At DSs school, potential scholarship students are flagged up based in the entrance exam results and are offered on the basis of their interview when I assume the interviewers all sit round a table drinking whiskey and discuss the candidates.

They do this to weed out those children who are heavily tutored and spot those who have the raw talent and potential.

"in which case they will want your child to have something 'value added' which may mean coming in top 10% of the exams, or excellence in drama/art/sports/music etc."
This isn't always the case some of the super selectives will offer bursaries to all I know you have a daughter but if you read the website for St Pauls Boys and Winchester you will see that bursaries are available to all who meet their entrance requirements.
I dont know where you live but I understand the London Girls Day School Trust or something that sounds similar to this offer bursaries on a similar basis.
Also if you have health problems Christ Hospital in Horsham have in the past offered generous bursaries to children when one member of the family has health problems. Although it is full boarding and many people baulk at this although IME boarding is a very positive experience.

"'If your prep school doesn't do Greek, it is OK to just do the Latin scholarship paper' and I thought WTF?"
I've just checked the website at my DS's fairly well known super selective very traditional independent boys boarding school it is not necessary to do either Greek or Latin in the scholarship exams so as always with independent schools there are no hard and fast rules.

priate schools usually offer scholarships for sports, music and for academics. A friend's DD has one for Art but that doesn't seem to be a common subject for a scholarship.

Various posters have said that these days its not worth much. Well DS has a 30% scholarship. I know of some who have 50%. I know a friend who knows a friend :) whose DD got 60% split between a music scholarship and an academic scholarship. I am not in a position to comment on how common/uncommon these amounts are.

Admittedly I know more about entry at 13+ bot IIME art scholarships are in my experience are as common as sports scolarships ias a general rule it's only the very selective who don't offer them at 13+. Friends whose chIldren got art scolarships had to prepare a portfolio very similar in style to one a friend of mine did when she took AS level art.
Sports scolarships generally require quite a high level of ability obviously the more sporty the schools reputation the higher the level required. Some schools offer all round scholarships here you need to be academic although not necessarily a genius and show ability in a least one other area eg music but usually not quite to the same level required for a straight music scholarship.
Most schools are pretty helpful and will give you an idea of what the minimum expectation is and often music depts will even offer a before you apply audition to see if your DC even makes the required grade.
The problem with all scholarships is that there are frequently lots of applicants for them because even if there's no financial reward it is a "status" reward especially into super selectives. A friend who came top in the Eton scholarship 25 years ago is a teacher and in the write about him at his new school the opening line was " he was a Kings scholar" in some schools you can only become head boy/ girl if you're an academic scholar. Also two of the best artists I've ever met failed to get art scholarships one who was frankly mediocre did and I can tell you the similar story for music scholarships. I'm not trying to discourage you but if your looking for guarenteed financial assistance you would be better off looking for a school with a committment to generous bursaries.

"that bursaries are available to all who meet their entrance requirements."

Sorry, but that's their aim, not what they can quite yet afford to provide. The Sutton Trust keeps a watch on the progress of "needs blind admission", and no school in UK can truly offer it yet. Manchester Grammar is closest, and Eton not far behind.

If any schools can genuinely guarantee to do this, say from next year's applications, they need to get on to Sutton Trust asap. They are looking for a success story on this, and have been in close touch with all the schools with serious aspirations in this area.

OP: as you have probably gathered - every school has its own rules for scholarships and bursaries. Websites give you a flavour of what may be on offer, but you need to go and speak to the bursar and find out the exact position for your year of application, and how the timetable of the financial process fits in with that of the general applications process.

If your DC wins a scholarship, it would usually remain throughout the time in the school (though some re-award for 6th form); bursaries are usually re-awarded each year following an annual check on the family's financial situation. Awards of either type are usually subject to 'good effort/good behaviour' on behalf of the recipient.

QueenEdithRe ?needs blind admission? as far as I?m aware St Pauls is needs blind my husband who went there frequently receives information about their bursaries and their ?needs blind? policy and the last time I looked it is clearly written on their website. Winchester is also very generous with its bursaries (and in fact has more on bursaries than Colet Court and St Pauls combined) we recently received a report from the school detailing how many and what size of bursaries they are offering. Now well over 10% of the school receive financial help and the numbers are increasing year on year with the average bursary being 50% but according to the figures a significant number receive more than this including 100%. Eton on the other hand a few years ago were definitely publicising and talking to prospective parents about their move to a ?needs blind admission policy? I actually heard the chap in charge of admissions about four years ago say ?if you can get in don?t worry if you can?t afford it you can have a bursary? but they have now pulled back from this their website clearly states that bursaries of more than 50% will only be guaranteed to scholars.
It?s easier for Manchester Grammar to move completely over to a need blind admissions policy because they are a day school the likes of Winchester and Eton are £33 000+ a year they need large bursary pots to cover that kind of money.

I looked on St Paul's website this morning and it simply didn't say it has 'needs blind' admissions. Yes, it can offer 100% to some, but does not say it can do this for every single candidate from a low income family.

Winchester is the same.

There is no school in UK that is guaranteeing a bursary to every single applicant who qualifies for a place.

10% receiving financial assistance isn't particularly high.

"To have a needs-blind entry: we aspire to become the first leading academic school in the country to adopt this approach, welcoming gifted young pupils regardless of economic background."
This was on the St Pauls website. I agree they may not have reached it but they are fully committed to the idea. I dont think we should knock any of these three schools the fact is that they are genuinely trying to move towards a needs blind admission policy. The volume of money required cannot be found over night as I've already stated especially for the full boarding schools. Winchester may currently have just over 10% but the point is that this number is increasing year on year. Interstingly acording to the recent report we received the money for bursaries is not being raised by asking parents to pay more fees although I believe Winchester has the highest fees in the UK.
There are many schools out there who dont have anywhere near this numbers on bursaries as these three (despite making grand claims they make on thier website) and these are the one the Sutton Trust should be intersted in to see if they live up to thier charitable status.

Yes, that's pretty much what I said in my first post on this: 'needs blind' remains a future goal, not a present reality. It is something that they - and about 80 other schools have stated publicly - are aspiring to.

Sutton Trust has no role in any issues icw charitable status.

St Pauls are very committed to needs blind entry.
Until 2008 they had 2 types of academic scholarship, John Colet awards (max of 12) which gave a 25% discount on fees, and minor academic scholarships which gave £60 pa discount! This was changed in 2008 and both scholarships are honourary and are only awarded £60 p.a. The John Colet award is still the most prestigous and this year only 5 out of a possible 12 were awarded. Successful scholars have to pay for a sepcial scholars bage,£75, and they have to re-apply for a new at sixth form. The savings made from this have been transferred to the bursary fund - which makes a lot more sense than giving discounts to the clever offspring of millionaires.

A lot of schools are very committed to the aim of needs blind access.

None have however yet achieved it, and it is misleading (and unhelpful to OP) to suggest it is available anywhere in UK.

And as she says she has a DD, and is in an area with a catchment system (so probably not London), I doubt St Pauls will be of much interest to her.

OP: have you actually looked at what your local school offers, assistance wise?

QueenEdith I don't think anyones trying to be unhelpful to the OP but giving her some ideas as to what might be available for her DD. By detailing what is happening in the independent sector ok, ok at boys schools but Im sure there are girls school aiming for same needs blind admission policy then hopefully the OP will see that there are schools out there that might be able to help her. Ok maybe none have finally reached Nirvana and can offer generous bursaries to all but as they say if you d

QueenEdith I don't think anyones trying to be unhelpful to the OP but giving her some ideas as to what might be available for her DD. By detailing what is happening in the independent sector ok at boys schools but Im sure there are girls school aiming for same needs blind admission policy then hopefully the OP will see that there are schools out there that might be able to help her. As you are keen to point out QueenE none have finally reached Nirvana and can offer generous bursaries to all who can't afford the fees but the fact is they are trying and I am absolutely convinced that even in these recessionary times these schools will achieve their ambitious plans.

The point I was trying to make using St Pauls as an extreme example is that academic scholarships are now worth very little, its all about the bursary fund as schools have transferred funds to justify their charitable status.
So, whilst havng a G&T dd will help you pass the entrance exams, any funds given will be asessed on parental circumstances. You need to check with the school concerned I'm sure they have a website.
As for someone claiming in year 4 that they have already have a place at a senior school, this would no doubt be the same child that was potty trained at 6 months and could read Dickens at the age of 6.

Dickens! My dcs were reading Chaucer at 3 and a half months.

Thanks everyone :) (well everyone bar 1 )

sorry so late to update, seems to be calamity household around her ATM, so too busy nursing an injured DD & recovering from emergency dental work

Apologies if I don't reply to all individually, not able to sat online for long - but thank you & I'll try & reply to a few points raised :)

That all now makes a lot more sense - it would have been Scholarship in my day too, but seems its a bursary now - though looks from their website, that the School does offer Scholarship, though I expect its in part & probably as you say - not much financial help at all - poking around the Schools website does mention bursaries & points in the direction for information, which is good & even better that my DD friend can't yet have secured a place, as its too soon, that means I can relax a bit & have time to gather more information & decide which way to go.

DD is up to now considered gifted both academically & creatively, so the creative value added Scholarship notes are of particular interest, as that could well give her the edge - but who knows by the time she's ready for this, though she has always been very keen to learn, so heres hoping she still is by year 6 - I don't believe in heavily tutoring her, I don't think that would be very good for her at all - DD is also very competitive by nature, so having peers of the same kind of ability would likely be very good for her :)

I do know bullying goes on in all Schools & don't expect getting her into a private grammar school will avoid that, but I do expect it will help to avoid her being picked on for being clever, which has been the case & sadly has had her not want to take part in contests etc - it also seems the School now deals well with bullying.

& I've got to admit, I do agree that private Schooling isn't a sure fire way of doing well in life, I only have to look around our own friends to see the truth in that, some very expensive educations completely wasted & others complete drop outs who have excelled later - but I went to both state Grammar & comprehensive School, due to moving & my refusing to go to a single sex Grammar School & from that I'm a firm believer that the Grammars system works & these days the only way to access that is private schooling

thanks again for all your help, hope I've covered everything there & apologies for typos etc