Should we be advising our children to go into agriculture?

[Cortina]

There's so much on this board (lately) about giving our children a perceived advantage by ensuring they consider the 'best' universities etc. If you want to a fantastically paid career in the future there's so much written about 'magic circle' law firms, investment bank career opportunities, etc.

I've been reading that 200,000 students gain MBAs in the USA each year and how a serious recession is due in the near future. I've been reading that it's unlikely - quite soon - there will be any real money to be made in investment banking/financial sector etc just as there wasn't really 30 or 40 years ago. It's not the guaranteed 'pot of gold' career choice it once was, nor is it a far-sighted, clever move to aim for an MBA (if you are in your teens now) than it once, perhaps, was? Put simply there won't be enough jobs to go round.

Many commentators are saying if you want to be financially successful you should be heading to agriculture college. The average age of farmers in the UK is I believe 58 and in Japan, even older at 66. Pretty soon there will (allegedly) be a shortage of farmers and food/commodities. I was reading that pretty soon the investment bankers will be in the tractors and the tractor drivers in the ferraris. If you are smart apparently it will pay to set up a restaurant chain in the mid west where all farmers will be etc. Think these commentators have their tongues slightly in their cheeks but interested in the thoughts of those that know more than me about economics/business?

Are we all failing to see that things will be very different in the future for our children?

this is an interesting thread. I think you are absolutely right in saying that perceived desirable career paths maybe in actual fact be dead-ends, I know for a fact that investment banking is now one of them.

For our children's sakes we need to look at what is actually happening in the economy and future trends and have a radical rethink.

Interesting, mumeuro. How do you know for a fact investment banking is now a dead-end?

I made a mistake earlier re: average age of farmers, it's 58 years old in USA not UK.

ok maybe dead end is a bit strong but I work in the field and know that there are a lot of redundancies and job security is shaky, and the nature of investment banking is changing so that it's harder to make money. Also, my bosses are not keen for their own children to follow them into the profession. I just meant that from what I see around me it is no longer such a desirable option...

Thanks. Out of interest what are they saying should be considered instead?

lol, that is the question! Funnily enough, one of my bosses is actually going into agriculture himself as he is disillusioned with the IB world!

But it is probable that the money he has made through investment banking is paying for his agricultural investment? Is it a "hobby farm" or a farm which produces a living wage? And is he going to do the work himself?

The meagre amount of money made by farmers, except those on huge agri-business mega farms, is insufficient to enable young people to buy into farming without inheriting and salaries for farm labourers are dire. The reason farmers are so elderly is because their children have, for years, left agriculture for careers which enable them to have some spare time in their lives and enough money to live on.

I expect there is a future for scientists in developing scientific methods of food production, like genetic modification, irradiating, etc., so that the burgeoning population may be fed economically, but unless you can buy a large acreage for your children, and they are keen to live the wholly committed life of a farmer, then it isn't a job people do for the income - just the opposite as farmers have struggled for a long time to break even. I don't know the number of dairy farmers who have gone out of business, but it is huge.

If anyone knows what will be a great future career, please let us know!

It is a plantation that is an investable business. Of course the money he made from IB is paying for it but this money was made 5, 10, 20 years ago and he sees a better future in this business than in banking

Ah yes - investing in international bio-tech/large scale agribusiness is probably a sound idea. It will be interesting to see what happens to farming in this country.

It depends what you mean by agriculture. In the past I have worked extensively in the dairy industry. Dairy farmers are literally on their knees whilst we as consumers want cheap milk farmers are being given a very low price per litre and are barely covering their costs. Secondly being a dairy farmer is not just hard work or perhaps more correctly really really hard work most farmers with increasingly bigger herds start milking at 4am thats 7 days a week 52 weeks of the year come hell or high water, they are overwhelmed with paper work and the industry is very tightly regulated. Most importantly you have to look at cows and love them (not in a sentimental way) they have got to "do it" for you you have to have a "feeling" for them. If you don't have that feeling you are always going to struggle. Dairy farmers are also haunted constantly by the spectre of TB resulting in slaughter and costly movement restrictions rising cell count and lots of other things. This is a hard life with few financial returns but for those that do love it they wouldn't do anything else. To make bigish money you have to be very commercial what is known as high input high output dairy farming this is not sleeping cows stretched out in fields of buttercups but intensive factory farming, welfare standards aren't as bad as they are often portrayed because happy cows produce more milk but far removed from the rural idyl than many believe farming to be.

I am 'encouraging' DS1 towards Engineering, actually, in an attempt to help 'future proof' his possible career!

Imho, engineers shall inherit the earth as I believe, OFRSs aside, that we may well be entering a post-oil phase and those with the skills to turn 'stuff' into energy production will be in short supply.

I don't think it is easy to make money out of farming. My FIL had a dairy farm and was forced to sell by the bank in the end, which had a devastating effect on DH and the rest of the family. On the other hand we have two relatives who still have dairy farms but have also diversified into holiday lets and specialised produce and are doing well; though again both also have spouses who work in professions not connected with farming and bring money in. You need a good business brain and capital to invest to do well I think.

I do know many wealthy farmers. But it is the land ownership (in the right place). The ones I know in Aus sell to ME etc. It's the huge amounts of land that makes them very wealthy rather than just the knowledge.

The farm is usually passed down through the families.

Interesting.

If food becomes scarce, raw materials become scarce those that own these & the means to produce these surely eventually become rich? I am thinking globally here. So it might be smarter to try to emigrate to the USA & try to start to set up a chain of restaurants in the US (in the appropriate area) rather than trying to go into investment banking in the UK in 5-10 years time? (If your goal is making money).

Maybe, if being rich and successful is important to you emigrating is the answer? Looking globally, internationally? Perhaps we should be encouraging our children to go to University in China for a global perspective for at least some of their time rather than all this concentration on the traditionally prestigious universities in the UK? Maybe this would be smarter and likely to reap them more dividends than at stint at a 'more prestigious' Russell Group Uni?

My son's school is rural and has a large quantity of farmer's children. The school offers agricultural sciences as well as the usual mix and has a high uptake on rural activities. One reason we picked the school was because its not the usual kind of public school so yes I think it's a great idea to offer our children diversity. Good thread OP.

I like your thinking Cortina...and in fact the plantation I am referring to is not in the UK... can't say too much for reasons of confidentiality...

Generally it is the landowners not the farmers that benefit from price rises in agriculture.

I agree though, don't become a banker.

I say engineering. Or any kind of maths, science.

I think we are seeing a shift where quantitative skills and hard science are becoming more valued in all spheres (particularly when combined with a ability to communicate.

I'm not sure you get rich in agriculture unless you already own the land.

Certainly encouraging more children into careers which actually make something is sound - whether it makes them personally rich or not. STEM subjects, agriculture, manufacturing.... its a tragedy for the country that so many high status jobs are pretty much parasitical or just shuffle money around.

The one real advantage about teaching anyone about agriculture is that if Joe Public actually understood a bit more about food production, in particular milk production; how it is produced in the UK and how high the welfare standards actually are for UK dairy cows then maybe they might be prepared to pay a bit more for it. Or maybe I'm just deluding myself.

Or may be pay a bit more for non dairy milk if you understand how it was produced. DH was brought up on a dairy farm and we just use soya milk.

How is produced??

I think my boys would love to go into agriculture - we live in a rural area and see it around us all the time, and know lots of people who work in it. But it seems almost impossible to get a foot in the door if you don't already have land.

As a non-farmer I can see that it is not an easy way to make a good living, but it is a great way of life.

I think there are quite a few options to work in a rural area apart from farming. I know a gamekeeper, forestry worker and estate manager for example who love their jobs. There are a lot of courses at college or Uni. Otherwise if there are any large estates near you, what about work experience or even a part time job? A colleague's son recently started as an apprentice farrier. A girl I was at school with started off as a riding instructor and now manages a stud farm in a beautiful part of the country, having worked in New Zealand for many years. There are options - it doesn't have to be farming.

And BeingFluffy you haven't answered the how is milk in the UK produced?

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9244441/Young-Italians-flock-to-become-shepherds.html

happygardening, my DH, having been brought up on a dairy farm in an affluent area of the ROI, feels uncomfortable with the fact that other mammals are made to have continuous pregnancies in order to produce milk for human consumption. FIL is a kind man who gave individual names to his cows, so it was certainly not a case or being abusive or unkind to them. His grandfather was actually killed by the bull while trying to save it from drowning in the river next to their farm.

In all conscience we don't feel it is right to treat other animals in that way, which is why we use soya rather than cow's milk products.