Tiffin Schools Admission Arrangements

[tiffinboys]

Tiffin Schools (Boys & Girls) have issued their Determined Admission Arrangements for 2013-14. Boths Schools have decided to ignore pleas from the local community and opted to continue with Open Selection.

Though most of the grammar schools have catchment/proximity rules, some even going to the extent of denying applications to sit for their entrance test in breach of Grenwich ruling, Tiffins would continue open selection policies. Only handful of children from Kingston & surrounding areas get places in Tiffins. Most of the places go to the children living at very very far away places, eg. Harrow, Southall, Greenford.

Grammar schools from Bromley (St. Olave & Newstead Wood), Redbridge (Woodford County & Ilford County) or Barnet/Herts (DAO & Latymer) or Slough (Langley) would not allow out-of-catchment children to even apply for admission tests. Other schools like Kent grammars would only give places to children living near to the School. Some schools have most of the places for catchment area (Nonsuch, Wallington etc.).

This year, Reading grammars (Kendrik & Reading) and Chelmsford grammars (both boys & girls) have changed their over-subscription criteria from 100% open selection to 100% catchment and 80% catchment respectively.

It is high time that children from Kingston and surrounding areas also get level playing field. Until all grammar schools are 100% open selection, it is fair that some priority is restored for these children.

We have therefore proposed that Tiffins give 80% places on the basis of proximity to the Schools (or such other Centre point in the Borough, as previously proposed by the LA) to those children who pass the entrance tests. Other 20% may be given on open selection.

This proposal complies with Greenwich/Rotherham rulings. We are aware that it would take lot of persuation for the Governors of these school to accept this proposal. We call upon all parents from Kingston & Surrounding areas t write to the Tiffin Schools in support of this proposal and copy these to your local MPs and Councillors.

@BeingFluffy Tiffin Girls' is a nice school, but there are a lot of nice schools. It is high in the tables because all the girls are clever. Not because the teachers are better or try particularly hard. Totally agree - ditto, Tiffin School. If you gave the teachers at TS/TGS children from any 'ordinary school', would be a very different picture - interesting to see how they would do. Bit like Oxford & Cambridge i think - they don't do anything spectacular with their intakes either. I do not think the results of Tiffins are exceptional, if indeed the tests are effective and select children based on the highest levels of ability/potential.

The interesting thing about Tiffins is that, despite having the pick of such a large number of very bright applicants, they don't come at the top of the league tables for GCSEs and A levels. I think the major defect in their process is that they don't include anything which allows them to assess whether the child can produce a sustained and coherent, literate piece of writing, and that is where other schools are able to score.

21GumMum - what happens if the over tutored child had grown in intellect due to hard work? - some think it's possible. In fact if you believe intellect and ability can grow isn't that a reason to start 'tutoring' asap? Especially if child isn't learning well at primary for whatever reason. Some 'coach' right from the start for want of a better word. Those at a prep school have effective coaching from the start too, small class sizes, great teachers (in the best preps) etc. Why is tutoring always seen as a negative? Why not see it as enrichment where children are stimulated and encouraged, not necessarily drilled for tests - it's possible to see a tutor and just have the Tiffin test requirements as an aside, a necessary evil. That teacher can potentially talk to you about art, literature, the best poets, writers etc. The right person can add so much value.

I had a Cambridge undergraduate tutor me for an A'level resist once, my intellect definitely developed - suddenly I just got it. He was fascinating, brilliant, interesting a fantastic mentor. I'll never forget him. Everyone needs a mentor I think. I went up 4 grades in 3/4 months.

@OhDearConfused - in DS1 class there are absolute zero pupils that were not tutored to get into Tiffin; i know this for a fact, since during a lesson where the boys were considered ill-behaved & unruly (yes, indeed as with any other school it does happen) - the teacher asked the boys to 'Raise you hands if you were tutored to get here'. Every boy in class did so. So much for the untutorable test, eh? I will not relate what was said next...

@Hamishbear - with respect, you cannot 'grow intellect' - it cannot be cultivated like a crop; intellect is a measure of latent ability. You cannot seed or fertilize intellect by tutoring.

Zoffany. I am not sure. Perhaps it depends on what you mean by intellect?

Take a child that's a voracious reader, starts with those loathsome Rainbow Magic series (for example) and with an adult's encouragement quickly outgrows. With support they begin to read more and more, moving on to say the simpler children's classics. They then get the 'bug' - and they just begin to eat books. Their reading age sky rockets, their vocabulary increases, you speak to them and are blown away. They are still only 8 but they have the vocabulary of an adult etc. They could be intellectually ordinary but they appear anything but? Has their intellect not grown exponentially? A child with more latent potential who never reads may never be able to get such a high VR score.

Cultivating, fertilising of the mind - yes, I think all is possible and would hate an educator to think my child couldn't intellectually grow.

Some believe in brain plasticity and think the intellect can grow. I'm not sure. Personally I find it hard to improve my 'set' capacity for NVR type stuff and maths but for VR the sky is the limit with practice. I've seen children who many would consider far from intellectually bright write extraordinarily well. It's a tricky one and comes down to what we tend to value - logical ability seems to trump a lot.

lol: yes, well, erm... actually that's the only diff. between DS1/DS2 - lots & lots of books; so would agree.

...can lead a horse to water; not all choose to drink.

vocab comes from books, not tutoring.

...but is more to Tiffin than just the tests; what lies beyond - the school will be more interested in your DC's ability on the rugby pitch, even if they are successful & do get in. Of course that's where NVR/VR fall down; DS2 may be only 220, yet would literally have filled Tiffin cabinets with trophies, since he is gifted/talented at practically every sport. Lol: their loss - best hope they don't come up against hin at Grists.

lol: sorry, meant 'him'.

...for a 'rugby school' - pretty crap.

Could anyone help me with names of tutors for Henrietta Barnett for 11 +? Thanks

Since my last post, TS and TGS have gone different way on entrrance tests and now admission policy. TGS is consulting on a very wide and haphazard catchment area. We need to respond to the consultation as for variety of reasons, this proposed catchment is full of anomalies and does not meet the objectives TGS had set in its statement of rationale for the change. It is far better to have distance policy subject to a minimum required score in the entrance test.

Another point to respond is about 2nd stage test being taken after CAF date. IMO, this is against the spirit of the new Admission Code as parent would not have full information to make an informed decision about the preferences.

We also need to respond to the TS consultation and emphasize their duty to the chilren of the area and to strictly follow the requirements of the Academies Act, by enacting distance (or less preferably, catchment) policy.

There is no requirement in the Academies Act to use distance as part of admission criteria.

If what you are referring to as the second stage test is the test for those who apply to late to sit the initial test I stand by my view that this is what is required by the Admissions Code. To suggest that it is somehow against the spirit of the Admissions Code is nonsense. Those parents who apply in time will know whether or not their child has passed the test. Those who apply too late to sit the test will be disadvantaged as they will not know whether or not their child will pass the test prior to naming their secondary school preferences, so may end up wasting a preference on Tiffin.

It seems you didn't carefully read my post before making comments.

No, I didn't mean late tests. I meant 2nd stage test and my post is about 2014-15 consultation.

About the late tests held for 2013 entry, No, these were not required by the Admission Code. Wrong interpretation. If it was, why so many other grammars didn't conduct late tests. You would see that under the draft policies being consulted, TGS or TS have not proposed any late tests. Tiffins will come under considerable strain from appeals from the parents who may be aggrieved that late testers have push their children down the rankings. We shall wait and see.

And about the requirements of the Academies Act. Perhaps you will like to read the Act itself and the Funding agreement of the Tiffin School with the Secretary of the State.

Hi, tiggytape... there is more to this. For TGS, imagine that originally 450 girls were supposed to go to stage 2. With late tests, more took stage 2 tests. No official numbers yet, but grapevine is 530 to 580. Originally, 150 were to selected from 450; now it will be from a larger pool. One could make a good case to consider late entrants after the in-time applicants (as in Kendrick arrangements).

Same applies to Tiffin School. Originally, the 140 were to be selected from 1700 or so who registered in time. Now it would be 140 from nearly 2000. (not the official figure). Obviously, i) the cutoff score will be higher and ii) some late entrants would have scored higher and they had 2 extra months to prepare. On top of this consider the fiasco of late tests not on one day, but 2 days - week apart.

30 to 40 children below the cut-off score would have a strong case as late tests were not in the schools DAA (as in Kendrick case) and are not being considered as late applicantions.

You really want to tell me to read the Academies Act? I know it inside out. Perhaps you would care to read it yourself and point to the section that requires an academy to use geographical admission criteria. I'll give you a clue - there isn't one.

I have also read the funding agreement. Again, there is nothing in there requiring them to use geographical admission criteria. There is a requirement to consult in the "relevant area" but that has no bearing whatsoever on the actual criteria.

Now that I understand what you are talking about I agree that the stage 2 tests are debatable. However, I stand by my view that those grammar schools that refuse to test children who apply after the tests have taken place but before the deadlines are in breach of the Admissions Code unless they have some other mechanism in place for determining whether or not these children are of grammar school standard. They cannot simply refuse to give places to children who applied too late for the tests. That would be a clear breach of the Code.

How can you miss the relevant clause, if you have read these documents well enough?

Clue: these clauses were used by another grammar school in 'successfully' defending their catchment policy.

Matter of interpretation? Obviously.

We will see if Tiffins would have this late test arrangements for the next year. From their consultation documents, it clearly seems that late tests have been abandoned.

I am aware that you are referring to Academies Act Section 1(6)(d) which states that the school provides education for pupils who are wholly or mainly drawn from the area in which the school is situated. This is repeated in paragraph 10(c) of the funding agreement. However, I repeat that this does not require the school to give priority based on distance in their admission criteria.

A catchment area or distance based criteria can be a way of meeting this provision but neither the Academies Act nor the funding agreement mandates the use of such criteria. I suspect that most applications for Tiffin come from Kingston and the surrounding boroughs. If that is the case Tiffin do not need to use geographical admission criteria in order to meet the requirements of the Academies Act or their funding agreement, although I note that they do actually use such criteria as a tie breaker when test scores are equal. Even if in a particular year successful applicants from outside the area outnumber those from inside this is still not a problem as long as the majority of pupils in the school as a whole come from the local area.

Looking at the proposed admission arrangements they state that a child who misses the stage one test will only be considered in exceptional circumstances and with supporting evidence. If the child is accepted they will then be allowed to sit the stage two test. I think this can be challenged on two grounds.

Firstly, as Tiggytape says, they are required to treat all applicants who apply by the national deadline equally. I am not convinced that saying a child who misses the stage one test will only be considered in exceptional circumstances meets this requirement. That would be an interesting question for the Schools Adjudicator.

Secondly, admissions are determined by combining the score from both tests with a weighting - test 2 0.7 + test 1 0.3. The proposed admission arrangements do not explain how this will work for a child who misses the stage one test and is then accepted. If they assign an arbitrary mark for the stage one test that is clearly unfair - if it is too high they may get a place they do not deserve, if it is too low they miss out on a place they should have got. If they simply use the raw test 2 score without any weighting that is again unfair - it may be higher or lower than the combined score would have been. The only fair way I can see is to get any child who has been accepted despite missing the stage one test to sit that test. Whatever they intend to do should be clearly stated in the admission arrangements.

I note that there is no mention in the proposed arrangements of test scores being normalised for age. Raw VR and NVR scores increase fairly rapidly at this age so failing to normalise could favour older candidates.

1. I don't see how open selection could be compatible with the requirement of giving admission to children wholly or mainly drawn from the area in which it is situated. Tiffins are situated in Kingston Borough. And the children from Kingston are a small minority.

1. Tiffin School has put their admission data on its website. Have a look at it. You would conclude that each year on year, the number of children from Kingston Borough and immediate surrounding areas is declining rapidly as the number of applicants is rising at a faster rate. TS has not given the figures of applicants sitting 2012 test (2011: 1685). TGS figures are 1879 (2011: 1471). The applicant numbers have risen by about 300-400 a year since 2010. Sooner or later, Schools would have to think about distance/catchment policies as TGS has attempted to do now.

In current scenario, open selection policies are very unfair to the children living in the surrounding areas and Kingston Borough as many other grammars have catchment policies - resulting in over-whelming pressure on the Tiffin Schools.