whats so wrong with ofsted?

[cheapandchic]

I am not from this country and I am just starting to understand the education system. Every time I have posted about schools. People write "don't go by the ofsted report'

I dont understand why. Of course I will tour the school and talk to parents.As well as reading the ofsted..but if ofsted says the school is outstanding, why should I doubt that. And conversely if the school is quite lacking, why should I not consider that.

Why is there no confidence in ofsted?

Because they tend to judge more on box-ticking, than the "feel" of a school as a whole.

Plus, that "feel" is subjective - one parent/ofsted reporter might value a school which is very academic and pushes the pupils, another might hate that and much prefer one which is more creative/vocational/independent learning focused. How do you know the inspector values the same things from a school as you do?

And then there's the thing that because it's a box-ticking exercise, some schools will know exactly which boxes to go for and concentrate on that, and so get a better score, rather than looking at what would be best for the welfare and education of the pupils as a whole, big picture.

I think most people consider both the Ofsted and also their own personal feelings when they view the school (and probably all the local gossip as well ).

I think the Ofsted is a more accurate reflection than the Sats scores. Certainly, my dcs' school's report was a very accurate reflection, and actually backed up what I felt when I viewed - mainly that the children were exceptionally happy and polite, and that the pastoral care was exceptionally good.

You need both really.

I work in a school. I feel the main thing wrong with Ofsted is that it gives several days notice of an inspection.

Suddenly teachers who haven't produced a written lesson plan for 3 years, have them for each lesson of the 2 days of the inspection. Policies are updated overnight. Children are asked to be on their best behaviour. Staff are asked not to wear jeans.

They do not accurately reflect the school on a day-to-day basis.

The report is always a historical document.

I actually think Ofsted reports as a whole are fairly useful if you read the whole thing.

What are worse than useless are league tables and the general Ofsted grading of "this is a good school", "this is a satisfactory school".

my children have attended schools with serious problems not mentioned in the ofsted reports on those schools. If ofsted described schools honestly they would soon be out of a job.

Ofsted judges, which is actually no use to a practitioner.
A professional discussion with advice would be much more productive and less confrontational.
IMO local assessors with more local knowledge, and 'feel' for the school, would be more effective.

local assessors with more local knowledge, and 'feel' for the school, would be more effective love that suggestion - it would far more worthwhile!

My 'problem' with OfSTED is that what they want from every school is either -

*meaningless for every school - (see my above quote from mumble). A school which operates within a socially/economic problematic area needs to focus on different areas than a school which is operating in the most affluent areas

*focuses on irrelevant areas - my son's school has in every inspection been berated for any area in which they have no control of - they can not physically put their sports field on the site (students have to walk 5 mins along the road to reach it)

*unrealistic - what OfSTED want in every lesson is not realistic for students learning to succeed. Sometimes we have to focus on basics in a lesson rather than the all dancing and all singing lessons that they require which in reality means only about 5 mins of learning would take place after the peer assessment/group work/mini plenaries etc.

*not a true picture - how often are senior team actually on the corridors when OfSTED are not there?

I have no problems with anyone coming in and observing my lessons etc - but they need to understand the kids I work with, the specification I have to work to (which changes every year at the moment), even the time of year (like the LA advisor who didn't like the fact I was doing a revision session in the morning when they had their exam in the afternoon as the students hadn't learnt anything new )

I am not from this country and I am just starting to understand the education system.

And are you starting to understand our character too? We like to grumble and complain, it's our national passtime. (I would like to call, as evidence, "AIBU". I rest my case.)
We may complain about Ofsted but you can bet that we would also complain if it didn't exist. There's no pleasing us.

Ofsted provides a snapshot, but it can be a few years out of date, those wonderful teachers could have moved on. Also there is variation between schools with the same grade. When I was first looking I had two outstanding schools near me, one I loved, the other I discounted.
Also Ofsted only looks at a limited range of criteria, sometimes what is most important to you is outside those criteria. Also every child is different and what might suit one might not suit another.
So the Ofsted report is just one tool in choosing a school.

You should ALWATS look at the latest OFSTED report before you visit the school, and then, after you visit the school. Its all information; collect to help a decision, which for most people ends up being a matter of gut feeling anyway....

Both my DDs go to different secondary schools which are Ofsted "Outstanding" overall. Only one has "outstanding" teaching though the other is "good"; likewise one has "outstanding" behaviour the other "good". There is a world of difference between the two schools, academically and culturally. I agree that the Ofsted report gives an insight into the school but you still need to look at the school, meet the students and teachers and if possible chat to parents of current students. I was once told by an Educational Psychologist that the three most important things in a school were the headteacher, the headteacher and the headteacher and that has proved to be so in my experience!

I would go off parents words over Ofsted every time. My dd was badly bullied at a local faith school who had a zero tolerance to bullying - by this they denied/wouldn't accept etc etc the Ofsted made clear comments about this in their report saying this is the only school in the area that didn't have bullying. ??????

Then, they get notice for the inspectors so have time to put things in order, send letters home, bribe the kids with various treats . . Oh and not to mention suspending the 'naughty' children for the 2 days that inspectors were due!!

So, for the poster that said we like to complain . . You're spot on!!! They should NOT be given notice!!!!

I was horrified to discover that a local school's outstanding grade was, in part, due to the Head spending the previous weekend writing their policies, a working party transforming the school inside and out, and the Head actually lying about educational trips they were supposed to have gone on. I know some of the staff, there, you see - lovely teachers but equally shocked at how the inspection had been manipulated.

I'm an outstanding childminder and I felt it totally demeaned my grade and all the hard work I put in to get it, as did they

However, such is the pressure on schools these days, I can understand why they did it. Years ago, the school inspectors played a much more advisory role and I wish they still did - our children's education would benefit so much.

I'm surprised they fell for that one littlelegsmum!
I once attended a training course in bullying (prevention of ) and they said parents should walk away from any school that claims to have no bullying there because they are lying.

I'm all for helping our children's Education, but not when it leads to false documents being prepared :( and I understand the pressure to always be better but when I was told this (by another parent), I dismissed it. Until my DS came home and said 'X has been suspended for 2 days, but doesn't know why' 'she's done much worse and got away with it'

I'm amazed they fell for it too, but they really did. I would take any of my DC out in a heartbeat if it happened again. My DD was left in a vulnerable position becuase of the Head not wanting it on his 'reports' It makes me so mad!!

As a teacher, if I was choosing a school for my child I would definitely look very carefully at OFSTED reports. However, I've seen first-hand how schools manipulate the outcomes so I would read them with my cynical hat on and assume that the truth is a somewhat diluted version of them.

Many, many schools are obsessed with box-ticking because they've tried to boil down the Ofsted assessment criteria and just taken it too far. This has resulted in distrust on both sides and general lunacy within the profession.

I've worked in a school graded as outstanding, but it wasn't the head was just outstanding at public relations, that all. I'm in a far better school now, graded "satisfactory", because staff spend their time prioritising students, not all the statistics and paperwork ofsted want to see.