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Original poster

Where are all the WHITE kids gone?????

133 replies

drosophila · 04/02/2006 11:35

I live in a multicultural area in London where maybe 50% of the people are white. Our local school is mainly non-white. In DS's class there is about 5 white children and about 21 non-white children.

The school has a good rep and twice was in the OFSTED top 300 schools in the country. Why do you think it's not representative of the neighbourhood. The other schools around have very strict catchment areas so I don't know where they go to school.

OP posts:
kama · 04/02/2006 13:52

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kama · 04/02/2006 13:53

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MarsOnLife · 04/02/2006 13:59

no kama, for me it's not about wanting my children to go to a school that is only full of black and mixed race children.

It is about my children living where they see and hear positive images of all peoples.

We currently live in a pre-dominantly white area. I have no desire to move anywhere else as we are all very happy and settled here.

The point was simply that whilst being different can be something to be feted for children especially it can be incredibly isolating.

I really think that whilst we might disagree, my firsthand experience of racism is incredibly different to your second hand experience.

kama · 04/02/2006 14:03

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kama · 04/02/2006 14:06

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MarsOnLife · 04/02/2006 14:08

oh I do. I hope it's not something that you have ever had to experience. It is harder when racism is an indemic (sp?) thing. If it is something that you have grown with and experienced throughout school, holidays, college etc, work then it can truly eat into your soul.

I am much happier to have someone call me names to my face. At least I can appreciate their honest. I'd much rather that than the insiduous racism that comes with comments made all around. Very simplistic examples being... you're very well spoken for a black person, she's not bad looking for a black person, I don't think that university is really for you dear... why don't you become a nurse.

MarsOnLife · 04/02/2006 14:09

endemic perhaps... that's going to bug me now

kama · 04/02/2006 14:12

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MarsOnLife · 04/02/2006 14:16

that's okay, cos I really like your calm posts and hope you don't think that my replies are to stir the pot.

I think though that you mis-read caligula's post. She said... oh hang on, much better to cut and paste than try to scroll up and down lol

"For example, I have a friend who is white and wants to move out of London because she just can't afford the housing costs there. But her children are mixed race and although she has looked at places she really likes the look of, she can't consider them because they are very, very white and she doesn't want her children to be in an area where they will be perceived as so "different" from every other child in their class. And I don't blame her."

It's about moving to an area where they would be perceived as different, not about not sending them to her local non-white school.

I do hope that if and when you move back to Norway you and yours never have to experience any form of discrimination because of how your family is made up. Such a shame there are so many in the world without our mindset eh?

MarsOnLife · 04/02/2006 14:18

and of course I should have previewed... I meant it's not about her sending them to her local all white school.

flutterbee · 04/02/2006 14:20

Well my DS is mixed race and I do not give a flying flip whether he goes to a school full of black, white, green, or blue kids as long as he is happy that is what counts, and as for putting him into a school where there are others "like him" that is a load of rubbish.

sadwoman · 04/02/2006 14:22

My (white) daughter has been in the minority at school and it has never been a problem before. Going into 6th form, all her close friends left the school and she is suddenly the only white person in her year. She has found it very isolating, with people who she has previously got on with continuing chatting in languages other than english when she is around. She was the only 6th former not to be asked to take part in the Diwali festival. In group work she is always the last to be asked to join a group. She has spoken to her head of year who seems to think she should make more effort to join in with her peer group. If the situation were that she was black or asian, do you think she'd get more support? It is a good school academically, oversubscribed and usually 2nd/3rd in the area for results.

MarsOnLife · 04/02/2006 14:26

sw... no not necessarily sadly. Though of course in today's changing climate you could have a point.

I hope that your daughter manages to be more involved and that the students around her become more inclusive.

TheDullWitch · 04/02/2006 14:26

My son is in a class of 28 with 11 boys, 7 are black, he is white. This means he has - sadly but honestly - a very small base of boys to be friends with. However much you hope the world is just a great big melting pot, interracial friendships are rare and seem to get rarer as the children progress into year 4 and onwards.

Class seems to cut through this too. ie friendships between white working class boys and white middle class boys quite rare also. Whereas middle class black boys occasionally make friends with m.c. white ones.

Do you find your children make friends with other races? Mixed race friendships in our very multi racial primary school are quite rare. I've thought about this a lot (since my son has had a hard time at school) and have come up with the following reasons

  • mothers make friends with people like themselves and encourage their kids to mix with their kids.
  • children are attracted to people who look like themselves with their interests and background. Race based cliques get firmer as children get older.
  • some black mothers just won t let their children socialise with white families, declining all party invites - I d be interested why this is. (whereas white liberal mums falling over themselves to issue invites in my experience)
  • many more black families than white use the after school club (both parents work long hours) so these parents are never in the playground to make arrangements for tea etc.
flutterbee · 04/02/2006 14:27

I think the problem there sadwoman isn't skin colour but that all her friends left and breaking into a new group can sometimes be very difficult whether black or white especially at that age, I am white and had the same problem many years ago at my 99% all white school when all my friends left.

I do think not being asked to join in with the festival is a little off though.

sadwoman · 04/02/2006 14:29

thank you. I don't know how to spport her. We are looking at her changing to a F.E. college for A2 but she enjoys the lessons where she is, it's convenient to get to - and who knows how she'd get on in a different place anyway.

sadwoman · 04/02/2006 14:34

All through primary and most of secondary there were lots of multi cultural friendships. They seemed to change when they all "discovered" boys and immediately all the asian girls went for same background boyfriends.

MarsOnLife · 04/02/2006 14:35

Dullwitch. I'm in a fortunate position (or I should say that my children are) where the friendships are completely mixed.

I do take the point that the fact that the parents aren't often in the playground doesn't help. I'm loathe to send my child off to a place where I haven't met a parent and it's hard to invite those children back because I want to make sure to speak to the parent so that they "know" me.

Sometimes they may not go to the parties because of family commitments. We are regularly off having family days with extended family.

It's such a shame because all of the children (in the cases that you are talking about) miss out. I think that all you can do is keep the invitations going. It seems strange to me that that should happen so much these days. Maybe the fact that the parents are working means that they don't feel able to return the favour, or that they are just too tired.

sw... tell your daughter to hang in there. If she's happy on her course then let her continue there. Will be thinking about her.

Original poster
drosophila · 04/02/2006 15:17

DS is only 6 but race has been made an issue for him by his friends calling him white and saying they don't want him to be a friend of theirs because he is white.

His current best friend is a white polish boy and almost all his other friends are asian or black. He has one friend who is mixed race.

Dull Witch your experiences are interesting. Has your DS ever had abuse cos of his colour? I find the parents at our school generally mix very well. Another thing I have noticed is that the PTA is almost all white with only one black member. Not sure why this is. The teachers are a good mix of races though but not gender.

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TheDullWitch · 04/02/2006 15:43

Yes, I think some of the bullying he has experienced over the last three years has, in part, been down to colour. He got into an argument with a black boy who used a Jamaican word (i can t remember it now) to insult him. My son said "that's not a proper word" because he had never heard it before. The black boy said "that s a Jamaican word, you re a racist". And then he told a lot of other black boys who jostled my ds quite frighteningly in the playground. The school, however, has been brilliant and stamped on all this very hard. But they cannot change the underlying emnities.

But last Easter my son went to a sports camp at a private school in the hols, full of white m.c. boys called Alfie and Henry and made loads of friends straight away. He was delighted not to be the slight outcast he is at his school. Which made me wonder have I sacrificed his happiness to my principles?

cod · 04/02/2006 15:46

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TheDullWitch · 04/02/2006 15:46

No, but plenty of Felixes and Milos.

cod · 04/02/2006 15:47

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Jodee · 04/02/2006 15:53

Agree with Caligula - friends moved from S.London to Bournemouth 3 yrs ago, mixed race kids, now thinking of moving back to London.

Caligula · 04/02/2006 15:56

I don't think that someone who goes to a school where they are different from everyone else will necessarily be unhappy. But I believe you're increasing the odds.

I know people who weren't unhappy being "different" but when they went to London and met people who had the same cultural background as them, for the first time they felt really comfortable and "home". Not that they'd been unhappy or miserable before (in some cases, they'd enjoyed being the exotic one) but just that for the first time, they felt relaxed. When they made a cultural reference about food, or TV or something, they met nods of recognition rather than polite interest. Not that they'd objected to the polite interest, but sometimes, it's just nice to be able to chill out and not be the teacher all the time, iyswim.