Northern boarding schools.

[XLII]

I've already posted this in secondary education but thought this might get a bit more traffic.

We currently live abroad and are considering sending our DTs (currently in year seven) to school in England with the hope of moving back in the next five years or so. We want them to start in year nine in 2013 so my first question is whether or not we've left it too late? Would it be better to consider entrance at year ten or are we more likely to get offered places in year nine?

Our main concern is that the DC will be close enough to family so that they can visit anytime for sport, music etc. Realistically that means we're looking as far north as Newcastle and as far south as Doncaster. We also have both DC to take into account. DS is very academic whilst DD struggles more with that and is dyslexic. On the other hand DD really excels at music so a school with good options for that is very important. Neither really take sport very seriously although DS enjoys running and basketball (I understant that isn't a very popular sport back in England?). Good facilities is a must as well as the option to go home regularly. Not overly bothered about a high percent of boarders as long as there are local day pupils who can visit/be visited at weekends and leave is flexible enough to have a social life outside of school.

Where would you suggest and have we missed anything off our list of criteria (DS also says an Xbox in the boarding house is important!)?

XLII "IMO a school charging 18 grand a year before boarding should not have 19% of pupils leaving without 5 GCSEs!"
Paying does not necessarily buy you good exam results! Its all about how selective the entry is.

What you're paying for is a school where the pupils do well in relation to their abilities. Ampleforth is a school where some pupils go to Oxbridge with straight A*s at A level but also where doing well for a few pupils means not quite being able to get 5 GCSEs at A-C grades. As happygardening is saying, very high percentages of top exam results are simply likely to mean more selection in the entry. The time to get worried is when you see exam results that don't match up to the selection of the entry point.

Not overly bothered about a high percent of boarders as long as there are local day pupils who can visit/be visited at weekends and leave is flexible enough to have a social life outside of school.

OP just reread you initial post. Your comment above about percentage of boarders concern me a little as an overseas parent. We too selected a school that was close to family as they enjoyed visiting school to support the DC etc and our DC enjoyed visiting them occasionally at exeats etc.

You mention that you want there to be day pupils that can visit and be visited and to have a social life outside school. Certainly my DC are allowed out of school at weekends to go to the local town and certain other specified times depending on their age but as boarders they do not really have a social life outside of school. The school is responsible for the welfare of their pupils and therefore generally speaking they don't just go out of school for a social life. Day pupils do come into school at weekends to join in the activities and my DC have been invited out for exeats. However, the fact that day pupils come in and out of school at weekends imo should not mean that the number of full boarders is then irrelevant. Obviously as you have family who live locally your DC will visit them but possibly not every weekend and we found that although our DC love their grandparents (in our case) dearly that as they became teenagers they didn't want to spend lots of weekends with them. Plus as parents we didn't want to put the onus on our DC's friends to take them out either.
Good luck with your search for a school.

Some great comments, thanks. WRT to exam results I was really comparing them to local comps on the area league tables as I'm not familiar with what's expected over here. It seemed a handful of state schools which I assume would have a similar intake got better results. Upthread somewhere else someone said you had to get 50% at CE to get in - is that quite easy in that case?

goinggetstough, I should have made what I meant more clearer. I was meaning that I'm not doing to discount schools because they have less than 50% or so boarders as in the area we're looking at that would leave only a few schools. On the other hand we wouldn't consider a school with less than 25% boarders. I've also noticed that in general the schools with high numbers of boarders are pretty rural, making it hard to see friends that are day pupils at the weekends. The only reason this bothers me is that I went to a school as a full boarder and, although there were a lot of boarders, my closest friends we all day pupils and I rarely got to see them out of school. As a result I got more and more isolated from that friendship group without getting on with people in my house. For me this made school a very lonely place.

I've also read on MN about some schools only letting boarders home on exeats, which doesn't really appeal.

XLII sorry to hear that you had such a lonely existence at boarding school. I can now totally understand your comments.

It is such a hard job trying to choose a boarding school as we all want slightly different things. For us as overseas parents we prefer to have a school with limited exeats. Otherwise our DCs get left at school. Plus if there are exeats each weekend then imo the boarding community doesn't develop. At my DS's school they are allowed 3 exeats after games on Saturday per term and there is only one weekend in the year when the school shuts on Friday until Sunday night plus half term. This suits us but possibly wouldn't suit you?

With regard to exeats do remember that they mean many different things at different schools. In some schools exeats only refer to the times when the whole school is shut. Others it means you can go home after sport on Saturdays and for some it means they are allowed out on Sundays. Nothing is ever straightforward!!

I know what you mean about it not being straight forward! In an ideal world we want a senario where the DC can stay at school and do activities if they want but also be free to go and see friends. However I also would like a school where the whole school community is there for at least part of saturday so they can see friends in that way.

Have a look at St Peters in York. It's a lovely school

Quattrocento, we've friends with DC who were at Peter's who removed their children as they were very unhappy with it. We're still going to look into it for DS but it would be entirely innapropriate for DD as there seems to be very little learning support.

Have you thought about the state boarding schools?
I know people who use them - and they are a whole lot cheaper!
Website is www.sbsa.org.uk/find_school.php

Gosh, why were they unhappy with it? Genuinely curious now.

It was a very 'macho' environment and their DS was bullied for not fitting the school's mould. He also struggled academically as he, like my DD, is dyslexic and the school didn't deal with it very well. Are you connected to the school? If so what's your experience as what I've heard is obviously only one families view so any other direct knowledge would be valuable.

DH went there, and loved it. A lot of people we know speak very highly of it. We're sending DD there in the sixth form - thought boarding at that stage would be good as a transition to university. She is both academic and sporty though, and bloody-minded. I'm not sure I would willingly send any child to board without those three qualities.

Be wary of government school league tables. State schools are allowed to count other qualifications as "GCSE equivalent" - result being that some schools stuff their pupils into these because it can make the school performance look really good. So, before you compare , you need to research.

I also posted in education .... Sorry if this overlaps but am sitting pondering what to do. We have three sporty dyslexic boys , all very bright outgoing boys. Looking for next school looking at bryonston and millfield at moment. Quite worried about millfield being a bit glitzy and too many opportunities to party. Does anyone have children at either . Also found a site called little gossip was quite shocked by multiple pages of pretty offensive posts by millfield students,
Lots of sexual comments , racist and homophobic ones too just not what I expected . Heeeelp

I'd look at Sedburgh for your son, Queen Margaret's for your daughter. Both brilliant schools. Sedburgh would suit your son really well from what you've said and QM has an amazing reputation for getting top grades from bright girls with dyslexia. Plus, it's much stronger musically than Peter's. Both Sedburgh and QM deal with the "whole child" more than Peter's IMO. I would look at Peter's for the right sort of (day!!) boy, would would never send a girl there. Just the amount of makeup, perfectly groomed hair and high heels the sixth form display puts me off before anything else.
Visits would be crucial I think? Are you planning a tour round them all?

If you liked Sedburgh for your son but not daughter there is always CAsterton, which is near by so would make family visits etc easier???

Thank you so much for the replies. Dusty when looking at the league tables we looked at the column which didn't include equivelants so hopefully it was accurate. I think we'd only consider seperate schools if they were close together, Mishi although DTs aren't keen on the idea and the only eventuality in which they would go to different schools would be if they both fell in love with different schools.

We're planning a visit of schools in June but with exams going on then we are going back in September hopefully for a clearer view.

One school on our list that hasn't been mentioned much is Bootham, what's the consensus on that?

Mmmm. Bootham is not my cup of tea at all, but that's not to say that other people I know don't rave about it. The thing is they are very uncompetitive, which you/the children will either love or hate. One good example is they have a fab swimming pool, but it's not used that much by the students, not even for general exercise. They put out a swim team though, but they tend to come last in all local tournaments. The other schools in York have a much more robust way of approaching sport. It's like Bootham continue the 'non competitive' sports day most of us have to sit through when our children are in reception all the way through to the age of 18. Fab if you like that kind of thing, but I was talking to a parent from there the other day who was worried her daughter would not make her BCC offer at a new University and I do happen to think that after 10+ years of very expensive education, and in subjects she has chosen as A levels, she ought not to be worried about low grades.

One thing to bear in mind when comparing results, even if supposedly like for like. Some results are deemed 'invalid' as taken a year early, or a year late. Some schools don't release results. Some (like flaming QE which deserves taking to the cleaners over inaccurate advertising) count things like ballet exams and music theory into their ucas points. The proper schools don't do this. I know you said the league tables looked comparable, but they never seem to be.

And I really would press very hard about boarding levels at Peter's. It is, effectively, a day school with a small amount of boarding. And it does feel like a day school when you're there. It doesn't feel like a boarding school. But you could do boy-Peter's, girl-QM and they'd be close together.

I wouldn't even look at The Mount for your daughter. Everyone is leaving in droves and class sizes are so very small, and I was told there were no British boarders left at the top of the school, they are all International (not that there is anything wrong with this! But it changes the feel of a school if they are all from one country). My daughter's school picked up 5 girls from there just this September and they were all girls from families who'd moved not just them, but younger/older siblings from there.

I seem to be able to write an essay on schools in the York area but it is only my opinion. You have to base it on visits.

Not many schools I know take pupils into year 10. You may be lucky but are better at looking at starting in year 9. Also don't worry about per selection tests, not all schools use these and it's generally the top flight selective establishments. We chose my DS school two terms before he started there and just got him in before all the boarding places went. Good luck with your search and go with your gut instinct. Also imagine your child as a moody 15 year old and consider would he/she still be happy at each school you are visiting. Worked for me and worked for my son when he begged us to choose his current boarding school

there is one in Scarborough.

Not sure about it's reputation or anything like that, just thought I would throw it into the mix.

Mutteroo, DS is a moody 12 year old I dread to think what he would be like at 15!

Mishi you account of sport doesn't seem very fitting to what it says on their website! I've been looking at news letters as part of researching schools and it seems most matches were either won or drawn, basketball looked especially strong

Is it selective do you know? Or is it more the case that they get students who haven't made it into St Peter's (and is Peter's hard to get into)?

founf it here

I've already posted on the other thread about a few schools but I'm going ot repeat what I've said about Bootham and St Peter's as I have completely opposite views to Moshi!

Bootham - The school itself is quite small and only about a quarter of pupils are boarders. However most day pupils are local and it isn't hard to go out at weekends or sleep at a friends. The atmosphere is very relaxed (for example teachers are called by first names and there is no uniform after year nine). Basketball is fab (most years county champions) and good academics considering they only really select on behaviour. Compared to most private schools they have a high number of children with SEN like dyslexia so provisions are good. However it is also stimulating for bright children with things like a debating society. Can you tell I would send DCs there in a heartbeat? I even went to a concert when we seriously were considering it and the standard of music was very high. Student artwork also fab.

St Peter's - It is very sporty and traditionally more academic due to it being selective. Very good facilities and being a large school a lot of extra curricular opportunities. They also invest a lot in specialist sports training which is very strong, more so locally than nationally though! Teaching is good and they have a less mixed intake. Also setting is used so higher level work would be avaliable at the same time as less challenging work. I know you said you wanted your DC at the same school, but would two schools in the same area be okay?

What I would say WRT sport is that I wouldn't choose Bootham for a sporty child, and that's nothing negative about the school it's just not what they specialise in. If my child was musical or arty on the other hand St Peter's wouldn't be a choice as that's not their area of expertise. Whilst at St Peter's they employ specialist sports coaches, at Bootham they have an artist in residance. Because of this it is impossible to compare the schools.

XLII I don't think Bootham gets students who don't make Peter's. The two schools are very different and parents will choose based on the interests of their DC. I know if my child were less academic I would want a smaller, more nurturing environment like St Peter's and if they were very intelligent then a bigger school which more oppourtinities for further stretching would be better.

Again sorry for such an essay! What I basically meant was don't even try to compair the schools, they are for such different children.

Also forgot to say Moshi don't even get me started on QE. They enter under two names in the bloody league tables and still don't come top (which they claim to)! XLII don't touch it with a barge pole!