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Being a chorister - what do we need to know/ask?

55 replies

MollieO · 17/03/2012 10:00

Ds has been offered a place as a chorister at a choir school. He can go as a day boy to start but will have to board once he's surpliced. Very proud of him and a bit surprised but if we are going to commit to the next five years I need to go in with my eyes open.

I know about having to be in school for Easter and Christmas, plus apparently having to cut short the family holiday if someone royal dies.

I have a meeting with the head this week. What should I ask him? I'm writing up a list of questions, some basic (who does his laundry?), some more important (how will 20 hours singing a week impact upon ds's school work?).

OP posts:
Colleger · 18/03/2012 18:02

STG is a nice school and if it comes down to that or CC I'd urge you to choose the former.

EBDteacher · 18/03/2012 18:45

Shame about ChCh as the college is the most amazingly humane, tolerant place and the Head of the school is a really nice guy. Something must have gone quite wrong there if Colleger is right. Sad

MollieO · 18/03/2012 18:48

CC seemed lovely when we visited recently but I just don't like ds boarding from the start if there is an alternative where he can be a day boy.

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EBDteacher · 18/03/2012 19:08

I think you really like StG MollieO- I reckon you should go with your gut instinct.

Colleger · 18/03/2012 19:38

Go with your gut, my comments were just to make you aware of how it ranked academically with other choir schools, term dates etc. if these are not a priority then he will be fine at StG but do register him at Radley asap!

MollieO · 18/03/2012 20:00

I will do. It is a surprise that potentially ds has a choice. We only looked at CC to have a back up if ds didn't get an offer (only looked at alternatives in the last couple of weeks when we discovered that there were so few places on offer this year).

Academics are important but for ds music and art are more important and what he wants and enjoys matters to me. My education was decided by my parents against my wishes and I don't want to repeat that with ds. Radley form was posted yesterday!

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Colleger · 18/03/2012 20:22

StG also has more land than the other schools you are looking at. But do make sure you look. We turned down King's and really regretted it and when we left the first choir school we wished we had looked at WA as it would have been perfect for DS, but there is etiquette between certain choir schools and he could not go there. Location wise and boarding wise - its a no brainer - and if you are looking for prestige, it ranks alongside the other three famous ones.

Colleger · 18/03/2012 20:24

He may well get into a very selective school but the likelihood would be schools like Harrow, Radley, Wellington, Uppingham and Stowe from StG. If you like the look of any of these schools then he'd easily get into them.

MollieO · 18/03/2012 20:31

I worry that WA is too small. What on earth do they do about team sports?! I planned to look if ds didn't get an offer from StG.

I'd be happy with three of the schools you've listed. It's hard to tell at 7 what they will be like at 13 though.

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Colleger · 18/03/2012 20:51

He probably won't want to go to Eton after living so close to it. I know lots of Pilgrim boys who wanted a change and didn't go to Winchester, although that was the reason their parents sent them there!

MollieO · 18/03/2012 21:11

Not bothered about Eton fortunately. Nothing wrong with Eton but I don't see ds as a Eton boy, nor a Winchester one come to that (and nothing wrong with Winchester either!).

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yesbutnobut · 18/03/2012 22:35

When looking at senior schools, do bear in mind that music scholarships are 5 - 10% only these days (unless you go to, say, Uppingham). Whilst choristers are usually on generous choristerships, the days when music scholarships were 50% of the fee are pretty much gone. The scholarship can be topped up by means tested bursary of course. Not sure if this is even a consideration for you but it's fairly recent that the value of scholarships has gone down so much.

Colleger · 19/03/2012 07:22

It is worth bearing in mind because some choristerships range from 25% off the day fee to around 80% off the boarding fee. King's offered the best rate when I looked three years ago and St Paul's was also very generous.

MollieO · 19/03/2012 07:49

This is 50% off boarding fees so not as generous as others but means ds will board for the same cost as his current day fees.

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MollieO · 19/03/2012 14:08

Turned down offer of voice trial at WA today. They said 'thank you for being so candid'! All I'd done was tell them about other offers/interest. Makes me wonder what people normally do.

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MollieO · 21/03/2012 14:23

Very candid meeting with the head today. He answered my two pages of questions as openly and frankly as he was able. Thank you to everyone who helped compile my list. We will definitely be accepting. Ds will be delighted. Smile

OP posts:
Colleger · 21/03/2012 20:42

I hope DS thrives there. Maybe we'll see him in YCOY in 4/5 years time! :)

MollieO · 21/03/2012 22:19

Thanks. I feel very happy with the decision. It seems to be a very friendly and caring school which will offer a lot of support to ds in making the transition into a new school and chorister life.

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toughnut · 29/06/2013 10:26

My son was bullied at his choir school for over a year. My son was clearly not happy, but I couldn't understand why - I thought it was just a matter of getting used to boarding. Eventually, he explained the cause of his unhappiness and I dealt with it. What surprised me, however, was that nobody at the staff noticed/cared about what had been going on. I am a teacher and it's pretty difficult not to spot problems like this.

toughnut · 29/06/2013 11:19

So, basically, my advice is a warning: don't send your son to a boarding school aged 8 - it's far too young!

Other reasons are the following:

FOOD and DIET. School dinners are OK once a day, but do you really trust schools to feed your child really well 24/7? In my son's first year at school he would get into trouble (actually, he received punishments) for spending too long in the toilet. Basically, his body had to get used to a diet that was severely lacking in fresh fruit and vegetables. He was also expected to get energy from snack foods which he barely recognised as food at first - ie the cheapest varieties of biscuits - on a regular (2-3 times a day) basis. Apart this, he is a slow and fussy eater, so often doesn't eat enough. As a result, he is often cold and for well over a year suffered from a cough which everybody comments on but could do nothing to resolve.

READING. Before my son went to boarding school, he was an avid reader - and he still when I create appropriate conditions at home. However, at boarding school this habit was (not literally) beaten out of him. He is now 'afraid' (!!!) to read - even on bright summer mornings when he wakes up early before 7. They are allocated something like 10 - 15 mins each evening for reading (which, you can imagine why, is always less). If you are caught reading at any other time, you risk having either your book or torch or both confiscated.

YOUR CHILD'S EDUCATION. Extensive research has shown just how important and effective parental involvement is. It is the single most important thing caregivers can do to help children succeed academically (Cummins, 1993; Hannon, 1996; Morrison and Cooney, 2002). Studies have proved how these experiences as a child set them apart academically from their peers by age 15 (Borgonovi, 2011). It is the ?genuine interest and active engagement? of the caregiver that is most important, and not their specialist knowledge. Is this clear? If not I'll tell you more...

My son, a boarder, almost never finishes his homework. This is because he is, like many children, a little slow to get started, always has quite a few questions to ask, and takes longer than most children. There is nobody at the boarding who ever notices or bothers to help although it is a well-known problem that he has. The educational results are quite as bad as you would imagine them to be: when my son started life as a chorister, he could have chosen which school/scholarship to take. Now he has no choice - currently, he wouldn't pass the CE for ANY reasonable private school. He is up the river without a paddle - we cannot afford private education without a scholarship. BEWARE! Unless your child is HIGHLY gifted academically and a VERY FAST worker - DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER THIS OPTION. The school may well be academic, but boarding will not do your child any favours whatsoever.

FREE-TIME IS SEVERELY LACKING. My son has little/no free time - to just relax and be a child.

They have a very busy schedule all week - until bed-time. On Saturdays: school, and sport, and rehearsals and service. On Sundays: usually two services and rehearsals. If he has spare time on the Sunday afternoon, he HAS TO go out on an expedition somewhere.

After the Christmas choir-time, he has about 5 free days, and then he has to start revising intensively for school exams in January. The Easter holidays are broken by 10 days of choir-time, as are the summer holidays. The summer half-term is spent revising for the summer school exams. Other holidays have to be arranged so that your child can continue to practise their musical instruments. At school they actually do not get enough time to practise - especially if they have 2 instruments - so it is up to parents to create conditions on their children's holidays to ensure they have time to make some headway.

Remember, if you are not rich and your child is not brilliant academically, a music scholarship with a bursary is the only thing that will save your child from going to the local comprehensive school - and only the local sink school has places available in Year 9.

COMMUNICATION PROBLEMS. Contact with parents is HEAVILY discouraged - even phone calls. You'll be lucky if you can have 5 mins in an evening on the phone - and this is never a conversation that is held in private.

YOUR SANITY. To be a good parent these days, you need also to work. When a child leaves the home at the age of 8 it is like suffering a death in the family. Remember - you will have to endure 5 years of mourning and grieving while you wait for your child to finish their duty. How will your mood effect your ability to function at all, let alone work?

YOUR ATTITUDE TO C of E. The pain of separation from your child will make you start to loathe church music and despise the league of ridiculously-dressed pompous priests that stroll around the cathedral preaching pointlessly the about things like the love of God, while doing their very best to spit (can't think of a better word at the moment) on the love that parents have for their children. In my experience, they do absolutely everything they can to keep you at arms lengths from your child. So, my advice is: DO NOT - for God's sake - LET THEM!

BULLYING. I think I mentioned before that I discovered after one whole year only. Staff did not notice! Even though they are good and very reasonable people. NOBODY can care for your child better than you can. NOBODY knows your child better than you. In parentis loco: it is just not possible if there 50 boys around! Think! Use your common sense!!!! Don't try to suspend your disbelief as I did. Trust your instincts. They are right. Don't be fooled by the prestige or the name of the organisation.

bico · 29/06/2013 12:17

toughnut that sounds absolutely terrible. Why is your ds still at the school if he is having such a horrible time?

I started this thread. Ds is at the end of his first year and is having a fab time. I don't recognise any of the issues you've had but maybe that is because he doesn't do full weekly boarding yet.

Ds is a probationer so has only boarded 2 or 3 nights a week (probationers don't have to board at all). Even on the nights he comes home he still stays for dinner after Evensong as the food is so good.

He becomes a novice in September and will do the stay on at Christmas. After Christmas services are finished he will still have 2 weeks holiday before going back to school.

The choir doesn't sing on Saturdays (other than very very occasionally) so when ds is a full chorister he will come home Fridays and go back Sunday morning. He can then come home for Sunday lunch between services. They don't sing at all in the summer holidays and the Easter stay on is very short.

I've had no problem speaking to him when he boards and his phone calls are completely private. I've also had no problems with homework or music practice at school. Rather the opposite, I know he gets support to do both which isn't always available at home (I'm not a musician).

He's a sociable and confident boy. Even though he has only been at the school a year he seems to know everyone and they all know him. He is that sort of child. He gets on well with the matrons and house parents and will tell them of anything that concerns him (and they tell me). If he tells me something that I think they need to know or deal with then I let them know.

I don't think being a chorister is for everyone. I have witnessed one boy being very unhappy to the point he was removed from the choir. I do think it is absolutely important that it is your child's decision.

When we went to the open day I was surprised at the number of parents who were there because of the large scholarship on offer rather than because their son loves to sing. 22.5 hours singing a week is a huge commitment and next to impossible to do unless you have a real passion for singing.

Ds does and is thriving. Academically he has upped his game and set his sights on getting into some of the most selective senior schools. All the scholarships bar one this year went to choristers so I've no concerns at all. The school ensure that the choristers have support to do their school work as well as music practice. They recognise just how heavy the choristers' workload is and do their best to ensure it is managed.

toughnut · 29/06/2013 13:02

As I mentioned, we're up the river without a paddle at the moment. I'm still working out of suitable solution. In the meantime, my son likes singing - about the only bonus.

bico · 29/06/2013 14:29

Which year is he in? Is he unhappy or is it just you? What have the school said about his academics and music? What support have they offered?

toughnut · 29/06/2013 23:15

Your school seems to have a much more human regime. I wish I had known the schools were so different.

I get the impression that our cathedral cares for one thing only - the quality of the singing - the children's psychological welfare, education, families and future seem to be of no genuine concern that I can detect. Fortunately, my son loves singing.

Extra academic support for choristers seems to be lacking. There's a sink or swim philosophy. You can fret and worry as much as you like, but, basically, you are completely powerless to help. I've tried. Choristers have to be very independent and comfortably above average academically to cope well.

I have taught primary school children and very often there is a category of young children who do badly because they have no support at home with homework and reading. My son now goes to a school for privileged children but he definitely falls into this category now - he is a child who gets no support at his 'home' and he has almost stopped reading.

Music is good, but seems too competitive - exams and competitions all the time, which definitely doesn't suit everyone. And time to practise at school is limited, so practising on holidays is an important time to play catch up - especially if you have two instruments. It means, however, that he gets little rest and is constantly stressed.

Happy? He stays to sing. But he has become an atheist (a phase, I hope) and refuses to consider going to a secondary school where other choristers might be going. So although he might look happy in the playground, this cannot be the whole story.

Dimittis · 29/06/2013 23:52

I think, as with many aspects of education, being a boarding chorister is great for the right child. For some there would be nothing worse, and it sounds as though you fall into that category. I'm so sorry you and your son have got into such an unhappy situation, and wish you luck for finding somewhere more suitable.

I don't think you can generalise so broadly though, as every chorister and every cathedral will be different. Pasting the same anti-chorister post onto lots of long-dead threads doesn't allow for the fact that many children thrive on the experience and would relive it again if they could! I spoke to a family friend the other day who was about to return to visit his old (boarding) choir school, as he made so many friends there and it had set him up for life with a scholarship to a famous secondary. Singing was what he loved and he got to do it all day, every day! No-one gets forced to be a chorister, but he chose it and it couldn't have been more right.

IMO boarding tends to best suit those who lean towards the independent and extrovert, with parents who are happy to see them 'take off' into that independence. This is doubly true for those who start boarding young. If you and your child aren't the right match for that kind of lifestyle, disaster is likely to ensue...